BFSA.DEBFSA.DEXETRA
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Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Preliminary Full Year 2025 Results Conference Call. I am Jota, the Chorus Call operator. [Operator Instructions] The conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Rafael Pérez, CFO. Please go ahead.
Rafael Perez: Good morning, and welcome to the Preliminary Full Year 2025 Results Conference Call of Befesa. I am Rafael Pérez, CFO of Befesa. And this morning I'm joined by our Group CEO, Asier Zarraonandia. Asier will start with an executive summary of the period. Then we will cover the business highlights for the steel dust as well as aluminum salt slag recycling businesses. I will then review the preliminary full-year financials by business, and we'll cover the evolution of commodity prices, our hedging program, and finally, cash flow, net debt, and leverage and capital allocation. Asier will close this presentation, providing an update on the outlook for 2026 and an update on our growth plan. Finally, we will open the lines for the Q&A session. As always, this conference call is being webcasted live, and you can find the link in our website. Now let me turn this call over to our CEO, Asier, please.
Asier Zarraonandia Ayo: Thank you, Rafael. Good morning all. Moving to Page 5 of the business highlights. We have delivered strong full results -- year results, continuing the solid trends seen in the first 9 months of the year. Our performance demonstrates once again the resilience of our business model and the benefits of our diversified operations. Adjusted EBITDA for the full year of 2025 reached $243 million, up 14% year-on-year. The EBITDA margin improved significantly to 21% in the full year '25 compared with 17% in '24, reflecting a strong operational efficiency and disciplined cost management. Financial leverage was further reduced to 2.27 in December 2025 compared to 2.19 a year ago, well below the 2.5 target, marking the seventh consecutive quarter of deleveraging. Net income and earnings per share also increased sharply. EPS rose 58% year-on-year to 2.01, reflecting a strong profitability and improved financial performance. In our steel dust business, we achieved resilient EAF dust volume across all markets despite adverse market conditions. Performance was further supported by lower zinc treatment charges and favorable zinc prices. Our salt slag operation delivered solid performance, while secondary aluminum has been impacted by persistent challenging environment, driven mainly by the weak automotive market in Europe, as well as the usual summer period maintenance activities in the auto industry. The Palmerton expansion project was completed as expected, with the second kiln successfully commissioned in July '25. We expect '23 to be another year of earnings growth, primarily driven by higher EAF steel dust volumes in the U.S. as well as some recovery in secondary aluminum. Our financial leverage is expected to remain at around 2x by year-end 2026, supported by solid cash generation and disciplined capital allocation. Growth CapEx will continue to focus on the Bernburg project. I will comment on the outlook in more detail later. Moving on to Page 6, business highlights for the steel dust business. In Europe, steel production in the full year of 2025 has remained depressed, down 3% year-on-year, mainly due to weak manufacturing activity and higher imports from China. Despite this, our steel dust deliveries from electric arc furnace steel customers continued in line with the 2024 average at very solid levels, demonstrating the resilience of the business model. Operationally, the European plants performed strongly, achieving a 94% load factor in the fourth quarter, showing a strong performance and no maintenance stoppages. In the U.S., steel production increases by 3.1% year-on-year, driven by overall economic growth. Our U.S. plants operated at a 71% load factor in Q4, continuing a gradual improvement year-on-year. The 2 new kilns in Palmerton have been fully operational since July 2025, and new electric arc furnace steel supply contracts are ramping up progressively through the Q4, following some initial start-up delays. At the same time, cost reduction measures in the U.S. Zinc refining plant continued to deliver the expected improvements in asset profitability. In Asia, volumes in Turkey increased by 11% year-on-year, recovering strongly after a weak second quarter affected by maintenance shutdowns. In Korea, the load factor reached 76% in 2025, up 6% year-on-year, driven by higher domestic deliveries and strong operational execution. In China, operation continued at low utilization level with earnings around breakeven, reflecting ongoing market weakness. Moving on to the Page 7, business highlights for the aluminum salt slag recycling business. In our aluminum business, performance has remained mixed in 2025. Starting with the salt slag recycling business, operations have continued to perform strongly, running in line with previous quarters. Utilization levels remained above 90% in 2025, demonstrating the robustness and efficiency of our assets. In our secondary Aluminium segment, the market environment continues to be very challenging. As we have been commenting during the year, the European secondary aluminum industry remains under pressure with tight metal margins and limited production activity, largely as a consequence of the ongoing weakness in the automotive sector. However, the performance in the fourth quarter of 2025 reinforces the view that the Q3 was the lowest point of the cycle and that the recovery should be underway. Despite these headwinds, we continue to focus on operational discipline, cost efficiency, and customer diversification to preserve profitability and position the business for recovery once market conditions improve. Now Rafael will explain the financials in more detail.
Rafael Perez: Thank you, Asier. Moving on to Page 9, the financial results for the Steel dust segment. Steel dust delivered EUR 212 million of adjusted EBITDA in 2025, which represents a 25% year-on-year improvement. EBITDA margin improved from 21% to 27% in the period, mainly driven by better pricing environment on treatment charges and zinc hedging. The EUR 42 million EBITDA improvement has been driven by the following factors. The year-on-year impact from volume has practically no impact, with similar plant utilization at group level around 70%, similar to last year. As explained by Asier, we have been able to run our European assets at a high utilization despite a very challenging market environment. On price, strong positive EBITDA year-on-year impact of around EUR 35 million. With the 2 main price components being higher zinc hedging price, 3% higher year-on-year, and lower zinc treatment charges, which was set at $80 per ton for the full year 2025 versus $165 per ton in 2024. On cost and other, the net positive EUR 6 million impact is largely driven by the lower operating cost in the zinc smelter in the U.S., as well as lower average coke price. These 2 positive effects have been partially offset by higher inflation costs in the recycling business as well as unfavorable FX. Moving on to Page 10, financial results for our Aluminum segment. Aluminum salt slag delivered EUR 32 million of EBITDA in 2025, which represents a 27% year-on-year decrease compared to the EUR 43 million in the same period of last year. The year-on-year EUR 11 million negative EBITDA development was mainly due to the lower aluminum metal margin, as well as slightly higher operating costs and energy prices. On volumes, overall marginally negative EBITDA year-on-year, with a decrease of EUR 3 million. Our recycling volumes of salt slag remained pretty much in line with the previous year. With these volumes, we operated our plants at a strong capacity utilization rates of about 89% in salt slag and 75% in secondary aluminum. With regards to prices, negative EBITDA year-on-year impact of around EUR 5 million, mainly driven by the pressure aluminum metal margin versus the previous year. As commented by Asier, our view is that the industry has bottomed out already in Q3 last year, and we expect positive development from now on. This was partially offset by higher aluminum F&B price with an increase of 3%, averaging EUR 2,369 per tonne. On cost and other increased pressure from higher operating and energy-related expenses. Moving on to Page 11, zinc price and treatment charges. Regarding zinc LME prices during 2025, heat zinc has traded in the range of $2,521 to $3,351 per tonne, showing a particular positive trend in the last months of 2025. The average of zinc LME price in 2025 have been $2,867 per ton, which is 3% above the last year average. However, unfavorable evolution of the foreign exchange of the euro-dollar has resulted in a slightly lower zinc price in euros, down 1% at EUR 2,542. On the right-hand side of the slide on treatment charges, in 2025, treatment charges for zinc were set in April at $80 per tonne for the full year 2025, compared to the $165 of the previous year, marking an all-time low record level. Turning to Page 12 on hedging. We have taken the opportunity of the recent rally of the zinc price to be very active on our hedging program. Our hedging book has been extended to the first half of 2028 at all-time high levels of $3,100 per ton. For 2027, the hedge is set at $3,000 per ton. This provides stability and visibility over the coming quarters and years. Average hedge prices amounted to $2,923 in 2025 and $2,990 per 2026. Turning to Page 13, Befesa energy prices. The page shows the evolution of the 3 energy sources that we have in Befesa: coke, natural gas, and electricity. With regards to coke price, which today represents around 60% of the total energy bill, the normalization that started in the second quarter of 2023 continues throughout 2025. Average coke price in Q4 was around EUR 152 per ton, consolidated its downward trend compared to the previous quarters. Regarding electricity, which today accounts for 30% of the total energy expense, price are at similar levels than in Q3 2025 after significant correction in the second quarter of last year. Finally, gas prices continue its normalization throughout 2025 with a slight increase to EUR 45 per megawatt hour in the fourth quarter of last year. Turning to Page 14, the cash flow results. Operating cash flow in 2025 has reached a record of EUR 212 million, which represents an increase of 10% compared to the same period of last year, despite higher taxes, with EUR 21 million paid taxes in 2025 versus a positive tax impact in 2024. On the EBITDA to cash flow walk, starting with EUR 243 million adjusted EBITDA and to the left, working capital consumption amounted to EUR 10 million in 2025 with a strong end of the year recovery from previous level in the first quarter, reflecting the intra-year seasonality that we explained already in the first quarter. Taxes paid in 2025 came in at EUR 21 million as a result of the final tax assessment of the previous year, in comparison with a positive tax impact in 2024, resulting in an operating cash flow of EUR 212 million in the year, making a record in the history of Befesa. On CapEx, in 2025, we have invested EUR 50 million in regular maintenance CapEx across the company, EUR 26 million in growth CapEx related to the refurbishment of the Palmerton plant in Pennsylvania, which is now completed as well as the part of the Bernburg expansion project in Germany. In summary, total CapEx of EUR 76 million in the year, which is lower than the range of EUR 80 million to EUR 90 million that we initially provided, reflecting a strong discipline on capital allocation. Total interest paid amounted to EUR 34 million, and total bank borrowings amounted to EUR 34 million in the full year. For 2025, the EGM approved in June to pay a dividend of EUR 26 million in July, equivalent to EUR 0.63 per share or 50% of the net income. In summary, final cash flow amounted to EUR 40 million in 2025. Cash on hand stood at EUR 143 million, which together with our EUR 100 million undrawn revolving credit line, provides Befesa with more than EUR 240 million of liquidity. Gross debt at the end of December stood at EUR 695 million. Net debt was greatly reduced by 11% to EUR 552 million compared to EUR 619 million in the same period of last year, resulting in a net leverage of 2.27 at closing of December '25, a strong improvement compared to the 2.9 at December 2024 and well below our initial target of 2.5. Turning to Page 15, debt structure and leverage. Following the refinancing back in July 2024 and the repricing in March last year, 2025, Befesa today has a long-term capital structure with optimized financial cost. Net leverage improved significantly, as explained earlier, to 2.27 at the end of last year. This marks the seventh consecutive quarter of leverage reduction, as well as well below our company target. For 2026, net leverage is targeted around 2x and below 2x onwards, reflecting Befesa's continued commitment to disciplined capital management. We will prioritize the growth CapEx on those projects that will deliver immediate cash flow upon completion, like the approved project of Bembur and other market opportunities that may appear. Also, we will keep the annual regular maintenance CapEx around EUR 40 million to EUR 45 million over the coming years. On dividend, we are committed to maintain our dividend policy to pay between 40% to 50% of the net income to shareholders. For 2026, the Board will propose to the EGM to pay a dividend of EUR 40 million, equivalent to EUR 1 per share or 50% of the net income. This dividend is 37% higher than the dividend paid last year in 2025. Moving on to Page 16. Befesa is entering a new cycle of low CapEx and high earnings, resulting in a strong free cash flow generation and shareholder value creation. During the last years, we have gone through a high CapEx cycle, which has allowed us to expand our operations globally into the U.S. and China. Now that this cycle is completed, we enter a new cycle of limited total CapEx below 80% over the coming years, along with high earnings, resulting in a strong free cash flow. Total cash flow after 3 years of negative cash flow, 2025 has been marked at an inflection point, delivering strong final cash flow. Total cash flow is expected to follow a positive trajectory, reflecting the company's improving a stronger underlying cash generation profile. Finally, as we have already commented, leverage is expected to be kept below 2x for the coming years, allowing greater optionality in future capital allocation decisions. Now back to Asier on outlook and growth.
Asier Zarraonandia Ayo: Thank you, Rafael. Moving on to Page 18, 2025 guidance. Befesa closed 2025 with solid delivery within the guidance provided, achieving $243 million in EBITDA and strong operating cash flows of $212 million and maintaining a strict CapEx discipline, spending $76 million. The company continued to deleverage, reducing net leverage to 2.27, supported by improved EBITDA and consistent cash generation. Earnings per share rose to $2.01, reflecting a strong underlying performance and enhanced financial efficiency. Overall, the result demonstrates disciplined execution and continuous focus on long-term value creation forareholders. Moving to Page 19 on '26 outlook. Looking ahead to '26, as in the past, we will provide guidance in the first quarter once the 2026 treatment charge has been announced. However, I can provide some comments about the year. We expect 2026 to be another year of earnings growth, strong cash flow generation, and continued deleverage. Steel volumes are expected to remain solid and stable in Europe, while the U.S. anticipates higher volumes driven by new contracts with the steelmakers. In China and the rest of Asia, stability is also expected to prevail. Salt slags operations are projected to maintain stable volumes compared with 2025, supported by higher collection fees. The metal margin for second aluminum is also expected to improve gradually through the year, particularly after having bottomed out in the third quarter of 2025. The smelter has benefited from a strong fixed cost reduction achieved in 2025, and further efficiencies are expected to be realized through 2026. On the other hand, energy costs are expected to evolve more moderately. The group anticipates a slightly lower to stable overall coke prices, while European natural gas and electricity prices are projected to rise in 2026. General inflation continues to impact maintenance, ancillary materials, and personnel costs across all regions, creating a negative pressure point in the cost structure. In the treatment charge environment, the benchmark TC settled at $80 in 2025, its lowest level in 15 years. Although the concentrate market remains tight, characterized by low spot treatment charges, TCs are expected to rise in '26 toward a range of $100 to $130. Hedging activity foreseen remains stable with the average '26 hedge price set at approximately EUR 2,990 per metric ton, consistent with 2025 levels, suggesting a neutral hedging position. Total CapEx for the year will be below EUR 70 million, with around EUR 45 million for regular maintenance and the remaining for growth in expansion of Bernburg. Net leverage will be around 2x by the end of the year. Moving on to Page 20 on Palmerton. In the United States, our Palmerton plant has been successfully refurbished, marking a key milestone in our strategic growth road map. Both kilns are now fully operational, positioning Befesa to capture the significant growth expected in the U.S. electric furnace steel dust market over the coming years. U.S. electrical furnace steel capacity is projected to increase by more than 20% by 2028, equivalent to around 18 million tons of new steelmaking capacity. This expansion translates into over 300,000 tons of additional steel dust, creating a substantial opportunity for Befesa's recycling operations. With a total installed capacity of 650,000 tons across our U.S. plants, we are now well-positioned to leverage this growth. Our goal is to progressively ramp up utilization from below 70% today to around 90% by 2028 as new electric arc furnace capacity comes online. The combination of our modernized departmental facility, long-term customer relationships, and strategic geographic footprint near key steel producers ensures that Befesa is ready to capture this next phase of growth in the U.S. market. Moving on to Page 21, our expansion project in Bernburg, Germany. This is another important milestone in Befesa's growth journey as we continue to strengthen our aluminum business and expand our recycling capacity in Europe. From a timing perspective, our permits have now been obtained, and our construction officially started in August '25. We expect a 12-month construction period followed by a 6-month ramp-up phase in the second half of '26. On the commercial side, we have already secured strong customer support. Overall, the Bernburg expansion is progressing fully in line with plan. Moving on to Page 22 about the European steel industry. Europe is accelerating its transition toward electric arc furnace steelmaking, largely driven by decarbonization targets and supportive policy frameworks. Between '26 and 2030, 12 new electric arc furnace projects have been announced to come online. This represents more than approximately 20 million tons of new EAF capacity, which means 23% increase compared to the 60 million, 90 million of electrical arc furnace capacity in Europe. As a result, EAF penetration is expected to rise from the current 45% over the next 5 to 10 years, supported both by this new project and the progressive replacement of blast furnaces. Given our strong market position, established customer relationships, and ongoing business development efforts, Befesa is strategically well positioned to capture the significant volume growth expected from this strong. We are already engaged in advanced negotiations with key customers to support this expansion phase in the coming years. Thank you very much.
Rafael Perez: Thank you, Asier. We will now open the lines for your questions.
Operator: [Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Shashi Sekhar with Citi.
Shashi Shekhar: So I have a couple of questions. So my first question is on capital allocation. I just wanted to understand what's the priority here? Is it deleveraging, dividend payment, or further expansion into European steel dust business, given improved outlook for European steel segment? My second question is on China. I believe one of the plants is still burning cash. So I just wanted to understand at what point you will consider either closing it or moving it to some other province?
Rafael Perez: Thank you, Sashi. On capital allocation, I think we have tried to explain many times. We want to deliver a combination of keeping the leverage below 2x. I think this year, we have made -- last year, 2025, we made great progress in our deleveraging efforts, achieving a target which is below what we initially envisaged at 227. We are targeting around 2x for this year, 2026. And beyond 2026, we expect to keep the leverage below 2x, okay? Secondly, on dividend, yes, we want to keep the promise that we made at the IPO to pay 40% to 50% of the net income as a dividend to shareholders. And then on growth, obviously, as we have explained, we are coming from a high CapEx period where we have invested heavily in China and in the U.S., and that has enabled us to expand our operations. I think the focus at the moment is for this year in Bernburg, as Asier has explained. And then we also see a clear opportunity to deploy capital in Europe, as Asier explained at the end of his speech, to capture the growth of the EAF steel market in Europe, okay? We envisage to do that through a brownfield. We will provide all the relevant details about the project at the right time. But it's a combination of capturing the growth opportunities that we see in our main market, Europe, while keeping the leverage below 2x and keeping the commitment to pay dividend.
Asier Zarraonandia Ayo: Yes. Sashi, and regarding the second question about China, well, yes, we have one plant running probably levels in 50%, 60% and the other one is just 10%, 20% depending on the availability. But it's not burning cash because basically, what we have is that plant stopped under control, and even when we run in periods where we have stopped the plant, moving the people to run the business. And basically, the cash is -- we are not negative cash in general in China for the whole business. So we are doing EBITDA positive and converting into cash positive for the year. So we have some confidence to be in that way until the market comes back. Possibilities for the future, well, you talk about. I mean, we are open to see if we can move in another province. And in that case, we consider even to transfer or translate the assets. We will see. The whole thing now is that China is in a situation that we don't see the need to invest in that so far more and wait for the recovery and as well because we are not, again, making cash negative, we have time to do that.
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Adahna Ekoku with Morgan Stanley.
Adahna Ekoku: I also have 2. So first of all, just on secondary aluminum, there was quite a strong margin improvement quarter-over-quarter, given the market backdrop. Is this a level we should expect to persist throughout 2026? Or were there any kind of specific positive effects in Q4 here? And second, just on the Q1 outlook, could you run through the kind of key moving parts to consider here, like volumes and margins? And are there any maintenance activities we should be aware of?
Rafael Perez: Adahna, thank you for the question. Well, secondary aluminum, I think that -- well, yes, I think as I reference the last quarter margins, and probably we will see this, and we are starting to see this level in the first part of the year. But still, it's a little bit early to say this is going to be there, perhaps the level even is increasing, we will see. I mean it's a good reference because we see that the last part of the part has gone. In terms of the outlook and maintenance, I think that the reference could be the last year situation for maintenance stoppages, and probably the dust and the activity volumes are going to be in line with 2025, but we think that we can improve the figures. But in terms of activity, it could be a good reference, the first quarter of 2025.
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Fabian Piasta with Jefferies.
Fabian Piasta: I have 3 and one follow-up. So could you give us an indication what the EBITDA contribution from your U.S. smelting business is? Are we breakeven already this year? And what are you expecting for 2026? The second one is on the treatment charge outlook. Do you think that this is more driven by capacities or the recently increasing LME zinc price, basically making smelter compete for the zinc? And the third question would be you were referring to demand from data center verticals. Is there an end market split that you can share? How do you see that? What do you expect this growth to influence volumes in the U.S. And the last one was on maintenance. Did you say that the phasing is going to be similar like last year, so more maintenance shutdowns in the first half? Or did I get that right?
Asier Zarraonandia Ayo: Thank you, Fabian. So many good questions. Well, regarding the U.S., refinery is where the plan is where we thought to be and is closing to the breakeven point, and the costs are under control. Now the operation depends on the volumes as well of material we can treat there, and it's basically a control of the cost already done. Even you can gain a little bit more efficiency cost for next year. Regarding the treatment charge, it's a good question about what is affecting the most is capacity demand of about concentrates market, and it's a little bit strange. But obviously, it's affected by the rest of the factors, which affects to the zinc price. Normally, the period is still in favor of the miners. The question is where it's going to be spot TC that is not -- has not to be a real election, but it's a little bit down again. So well, all the music sounds that it's going to be another year of favor of minus. The level could be in the range as we see more than $100 now, but it has to be confirmed, basically those days with a meeting for the International Zinc Association in U.S. those days. We will see. In terms of the steel demand and so on, I think that everywhere is an expectation about the general evolution looks positive because we can see the steel share prices of everyone. I think that the expectation is that a recovery, and because the tax and custom action they are taking for -- in Europe or U.S. could have an effect in the production. If this happens, we see positive outlook for the steel in general. And regarding the last point, as I said before, yes, when we -- maintenance stoppage is sometimes not easy to move from 6 months or a longer period because yearly basis is when we do the maintenance. So more or less, what we see now for '26 is the same level than '25 with the Q1 and Q2 and then Q3 and Q4 having more volumes. This is a little bit the view that we have now, no major changes. We try to move and to do longer periods before the maintenance, but no big changes are going to come in the short term. So again, the '25 maintenance stoppage reference is a good point of your expectations.
Operator: The next question is from Olivier Calvet with UBS.
Olivier Calvet: I have 3. Firstly, on volumes in the U.S., what's your expectation for additional volumes in 2026, and that if you could give us a sense of the range you're thinking about, depending on when your clients' volumes come through? The second question would be on the CapEx level. So I fully understand the message on sort of below EUR 80 million CapEx going forward. But I noticed slightly higher maintenance CapEx in '25 than I think you had indicated. So are you expecting a similar level of maintenance CapEx in '26? And just the growth CapEx part related to Berenberg, I had in mind the EUR 10 million to EUR 15 million. Is that fair? And the third one, just on the zinc hedges. So great to see you've been active on hedging. So what you've added in '27 and '28 is in USD, right? In '26, I think you had hedged in euros, right? And just if you could remind us what level of exchange rate you hedge '26?
Asier Zarraonandia Ayo: Thank you, Olivier. I can get the first question about the U.S. volume, which is what we do expect, is partly the same that we were expecting in '25 with the new contract. So -- and then depending on the evolution of the steel production in general for the rest of the customer, but we see more or less in the range of 60,000 to 70,000 tonnes of more volume in U.S., more or less is a good reference for you to have.
Rafael Perez: Regarding CapEx, Olivier, I think we have said very clear, obviously, it's not a fixed number, but maintenance CapEx will stay between EUR 45 million to EUR 50 million over the coming years. And then growth will be based on -- in this year, for 2026, on Bernburg. We are envisaging a maximum CapEx for this year of EUR 70 million. And for the coming years, we don't see any year of CapEx higher than EUR 80 million. So what I tried to explain is that we are entering into a new cycle of limited capital, limited CapEx, and high earnings resulting in strong free cash flow. And regarding the hedging, yes, we -- for 2026, we are hedged in euros for our European volumes, in dollars for our American volumes. And for '27 and '28, the hedging at the moment in U.S. dollars.
Olivier Calvet: And just on the CapEx, so the growth part of the guidance for '26 is basically only Bernburg, or is it -- is there some headroom to do--
Rafael Perez: Yes.
Operator: The next question is from the line of Jaime Grivanomayes with Banco Santander.
Jaime Escribano: A couple of questions from my side. The first one on salt slag. So the EBITDA in '24 was close to EUR 32 million, around EUR 29.5 million in '25. What could we expect in 2026? Also, if you can comment on the margin of Salted slags in Q4, which was a little bit low at 21%, more or less. What could we expect? If you can give us some color on the dynamics in salt slags, basically? And second question on secondary aluminum would be very much of a similar question. So EUR 2 million in 2025, which seems to be a trough. What should we expect for 2026, a number that you feel comfortable? And maybe a final question on the guidance 2026, which I know you don't provide, but if we look to the consensus at EUR 260 million EBITDA, EUR 260 million EBITDA more or less, how comfortable you feel with this number? And building on this, if the treatment charge ends up being around 100 million, 110 million, and zinc price averages above 3,000. How do you see this 260, do you see upside risk, or you're still comfortable with this number?
Asier Zarraonandia Ayo: Thank you, Jaime. Starting for the salt question, yes, we have -- I think it's a business which the current normal capacity of the secondary aluminium production in general in Europe is quite stable. We do hope this reference of EUR 32 million that we have in '25 could be a reference even to increase something in '26, because we have increased fees for aluminum producers. So we see that it is a good reference, even slightly higher. The '25 number has been affected by basically the volume that you have seen that is not better, and some more weight of the cost of production because you are not increasing or compensating with the volumes. But the dynamics of the business is clear. It's very similar to the steel dust. The volumes is the key because we have the plant almost full capacity. But the current aluminum producing -- secondary aluminum producing situation is putting some stress to the plant, and we are not so efficient like in the past because the full production is the best situation to absorb the cost. We see the '26, as I say, a stable business, but probably a little bit higher, 10% or something like that could be a good reference. With regards to secondary aluminum, what we can wait or we can expect for '26. Well, the 2 million of the Q4 is a good reference. I mean, just repeating the 2 million in every quarter, we will talk about $8 million or something like that. So well, it's not coming back to the years that we have even EUR 20 million in this business, but well, [ Sala's ] reference of EUR 8 billion to EUR 10 billion is something that will be very strange for us, right? We will see if it's going to be even better because we see very difficult to be back on the worst period like it was the Q3. So yes, the Q4 could be a good reference, perhaps conservative, but repeating this, as I say, could be a reference. And with regards with the guidance, I know you guys that you like the numbers and basically one number and an average in the range, whatever, EUR 260 million, something that is the current consensus. Well, we are comfortable with this figure, but we need a little bit more time to see the evolution of TC and put our estimations. But I think that is, in any case, will be in the range, this amount, and we are not -- we are comfortable, yes, really.
Operator: The next question is from Bertran Palazuelo with DLTV.
Beltran Palazuelo Barroso: Congratulations all of you and the team for the strong results. I have 2 questions. First of all, regarding capital allocation, I know you answered, but I will ask again. Clearly, seeing the dynamics you're seeing and you're stating and clearly also stating the visibility you start having with the zinc prices due to the hedges, and seeing that the spot price is higher than your hedges? Well, it looks like in the future, well, your balance sheet should get stronger and stronger. So my question is, apart from paying the dividend, what is making you not start buying a little bit of shares to show the market all your, let's say, improvements. We -- from us, we would like to see the share count decrease. In 2021, you increased it at a good price. Now we want to see it decrease because the balance sheet, it looks like it gets stronger and stronger. And then my second question is apart from the -- what growth opportunities now apart from the state do you see medium to long term to allocate capital accretively.
Rafael Perez: Thank you, Beltran. I think we have discussed many times. I think, obviously, share buybacks is something that we have looked in the past, but the financial profile of the company was not adequate. It is true that we expect to generate a very healthy cash flow going forward. We want to keep the leverage slightly below 2x. And yes, if we don't see any growth opportunity, we will definitely consider share buybacks, considering also the share price and the valuation of the company. So always any time that we see that the valuation of the company or the share price doesn't reflect really the -- what we believe should be the fair value of the company, we will analyze share buybacks. I don't think that's something that you can expect this year. We have another project in the pipeline, which is going to explain to you, which is in Europe, as you know very well. So it's about balancing everything. But yes, I think share buybacks are something that we are looking at, not in the short term, but more in the midterm.
Asier Zarraonandia Ayo: Yes, indeed, I think Beltran is a good question. And I think that we are starting to enter in a cycle that we are going to generate strong cash, and the massive growth opportunities that we have in the past are not coming so high. So probably those considerations are on the table, and we have to see what is better is to keep growing with the projects as you are asking, or yes, to some program of say buybacks or whatever, what is better for the shareholders at the end of the day. In this regard, the project that we have in the pipeline for the next years clearly is to finish the Berburg plan as we are indicating basically in '26, and the next one could be -- or it could be -- the question is when, but probably starting '27 is a good reference and to run in '29 is the European second kiln in our French plant going on hand-to-hand with the projects of the steelmakers. We have in the pipeline as well the slab plant in the East Europe. If and following the developing of the decarbonization and the evolution of the automotive sector that nowadays, I think that is not the time to do because everything is delayed and has to be confirmed. Out of those 2 projects, we have, of course, the idea to medium term for new geographies like India, or let's say, 4, 5 years, China is back at the end of the day to see opportunities, small M&As or whatever. But it's true that this is the reason, as Rafael said, that we have to evaluate the new projects against new ways of contribution to the sales holders clearly. But anyway, we are really interesting because I think there is a very good opportunity for the Befesa evolution on the growth of the European market, and then we will see what is going on with the rest of the geographies.
Beltran Palazuelo Barroso: Okay. But also, as I said in the past, and I said it now publicly, I think you have demonstrated to the market that you're extremely good, let's say, operators. Now what you have to demonstrate to the market is that you are extremely well capital allocators. I think you demonstrated in 2021. Now you have to demonstrate it going forward because if you start a share buyback of EUR 10 million or EUR 20 million in the future when the stock is at EUR 60 million, that would make no sense. So I -- you don't have to make a big thing, but I think the balance sheet is getting stronger and the stock market is not reflecting it, and all the support.
Rafael Perez: Fully agree, Beltran, you so much for your comments.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Perez for any closing remarks.
Rafael Perez: Thank you all for your questions. Please don't hesitate to contact the Investor Relations team of Befesa for any further clarification. We will now conclude the conference call. Thank you for joining, and have a good day. Bye.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call.