Operator: Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to KPN's Third Quarter Earnings Webcast and Conference Call. Please note that this event is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I will now turn the call over to your host for today, Matthijs van Leijenhorst, Head of Investor Relations. You may begin.

Matthijs van Leijenhorst: Yes. Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today. Today, we published our Q3 results. With me today are Joost Farwerck, our CEO; and Chris Figee, our CFO. And as usual, before we begin the presentation, I would like to remind you of the safe harbor on Page 2 of the slides, which applies to any statements made during this presentation. In particular, today's presentation may include forward-looking statements, including KPN's expectations regarding its outlook and ambitions, which were also included in the press release published this morning. All such statements are subject to the safe harbor. Now let me hand over to our CEO, Joost Farwerck.

Joost Farwerck: Thank you, Matthijs, and welcome, everyone. Let's start with the highlights of the last quarter -- third quarter. Our group service revenues increased by 1.7% with growth across all the segments. In the mix, consumer was supported by ongoing commercial momentum, both in broadband and mobile. Business was driven by mainly SME and LCE. As expected, growth slowed in the third quarter, mainly due to the tailored solutions parts and wholesale continued to grow mainly driven by sponsored roaming. Our EBITDA grew by 2.3% on a comparable basis. And as expected, our free cash flow rebounded in the third quarter, up 12% year-to-date, driven by EBITDA growth. We further expanded our fiber footprint together with our joint venture, Glaspoort. And finally, we remain confident to deliver on the full year 2025 outlook and our 337 midterm ambition. As a reminder, our Connect, Activate and Grow strategy is supported by 3 key pillars. First of all, we continue to invest in our leading networks. Second, we continue to grow and protect our customer base. And third, we further modernize and simplify our operating model. And together, these priorities support our ambition to grow our service revenues and adjusted EBITDA by approximately 3% on average and our free cash flow by approximately 7% over the entire strategic period. And given that we are now nearly halfway through our strategic period, we look forward to sharing a strategy update with you next week, November 5, and we hope you will join us online for the webcast. Let me now walk you through the business details. We lead the Dutch fiber market. In the third quarter, we expanded our fiber footprint by adding 74,000 homes passed together with Glaspoort, and we connected 82,000 homes, bringing us close to 80% homes connected within the fiber footprint. And the rollout pace slowed compared to previous quarters due to timing. We stick to our ambition to cover 80% of Dutch households with fiber. During our strategy update next week, we'll share how we will get there within our financial framework. Let's now have a look at the consumer segment. Consumer service revenues continue to grow, driven by consistent fiber and mobile service revenue growth. Customer satisfaction remains a priority, and thanks to our CombiVoordeel offer supported by super Wi-Fi, our Net Promoter Score rose to plus 15 year-to-date and Net Promoter Score even reached plus 17 during the quarter, showing how these improvements are making a real difference for our customers. Let's take a closer look at our third quarter KPIs. We saw another quarter of double-digit broadband-based growth despite a challenging competitive environment. Thanks to a steady and healthy inflow of new fiber customers, combined with a growing ARPU, our fixed service revenues continue to grow. In mobile, we maintained a strong commercial momentum, adding 47,000 subscribers. And this was partly offset by ARPU decline driven by ongoing promotional activity in the no-frill segment. So overall, our mobile service revenue grew by 1%. Let's now turn to the B2B segment. Business service revenues increased by 1.4% year-on-year, driven by SME and LCE and good commercial momentum. Net Promoter Score rose to plus 5 in the third quarter, reflecting customer appreciation for stability, reliability and the quality of our networks and services. SME service revenues increased by 3.3% year-on-year, driven by growth in Cloud and Workspace, broadband and mobile. LCE service revenues increased by 1% year-on-year, supported by growth in mainly IoT, Unified Communications and CPaaS. Mobile service revenues were impacted by ongoing price pressure, though this was partly offset by a growing customer base. And finally, and as expected, I must say, Tailored Solutions service revenues decreased by 2.5%, reflecting a further focus on value steering. And then wholesale -- our wholesale service revenues continue to grow, mainly due to a strong performance in mobile, driven by the continued growth in international sponsored roaming. Broadband service revenues increased despite a decline in copper base driven by fiber and other service revenues increased mainly due to an update in visitor roaming. Now let me hand over to Chris to give you more details on financials.

Hans Figee: Thank you, Joost. Let me now take you through our financial performance. First, let me summarize some key figures for the third quarter. First, adjusted revenues increased 2.4% year-on-year in the third quarter, driven by service revenue growth across all segments and higher non-service revenues. Second, our adjusted EBITDA after leases grew by 4.4% compared to last year, supported by higher service revenues, the IPR benefit and contribution from tower company, Althio. This was partly offset by the holiday provision effect. As a reminder, starting this year, most employees no longer register holiday leave, resulting in a lower provision release in Q3 compared to last year, impacting therefore, the distribution of EBITDA growth over the year with a specific negative accounting impact in the third quarter. Finally, as anticipated, our free cash flow rebounded in Q3 and is now up 12% year-to-date. I'll share more details on the underlying cash developments later in this presentation. Group service revenues grew by 1.7% year-on-year, supported by all segments. And within this mix, consumer revenues increased by 1.1%, driven by, as Joost said, continued solid momentum in both fixed and mobile. Business service revenue growth tapered off somewhat in the third quarter compared to previous quarters, mainly due to developments in Tailored Solutions and timing effects. And finally, wholesale service revenues increased by 5.2% year-on-year, driven by ongoing growth in our international sponsored roaming business. Our adjusted EBITDA grew 4.4% year-on-year in Q3 or 2.3% on a comparable basis if we adjust for the IPR benefits, the Althio contribution and the holiday provisioning effects. Direct costs remained broadly in line with last year, reflecting shifts in the revenue mix, particularly within Tailored Solutions, where our continued focus on value and margin steering is shaping direct cost dynamics. On a comparable basis, our indirect cost base decreased by EUR 5 million, driven by lower energy and billing costs. We further scaled down our workforce, resulting in a reduction of over 300 FTEs compared to previous year. Our year-to-date operational free cash flow increased by 12% compared to last year or 8.6% excluding the IPR benefit and Althio, driven therefore by EBITDA growth. As expected and communicated to you, free cash flow generation rebounded in the third quarter, mainly due to improved working capital and lower interest payments. Year-to-date, our free cash flow is up 12% compared to the first 9 months of last year, again, supported by EBITDA growth and partly offset by higher interest payments and cash taxes paid this year. Finally, we ended the quarter with a cash position of EUR 373 million, absorbing the impact of the interim dividend over '25 and share buyback payments. We continue to run with a strong balance sheet. At the end of Q3, we had a leverage ratio of 2.5x, in line with our self-imposed ceiling and remained stable compared to the previous quarter. We expect our leverage ratio to return to 2.4x by the end of the year, supported by increased free cash flow generation. Our interest coverage ratio was sequentially a bit lower at 9.5x, and our cost of senior debt decreased slightly, mainly driven by lower floating interest rates. Our exposure to floating rates, by the way, remains limited at only 16%. Our liquidity position of around EUR 1.4 billion remains strong covering debt maturities until the end of '28. We are on track to deliver the 2025 outlook we shared with you in July. And on 25th of July, we completed our EUR 250 million share buyback program for the year. The cancellation of about 60 million treasury shares will be finalized in Q4. And August 1, we paid out an interim dividend of EUR 0.073 per share in respect of 2025. And finally, we reiterate our midterm, also known as our 337 targets as presented at our previous Capital Markets Day. As outlined back then, both service revenues and EBITDA are expected to grow 3% per year on average over the plan period and our free cash flow by 7% per annum on average with growth in cash back-end loaded due to our CapEx plans. Until 2026, our free cash flow growth is expected to grow at a low single-digit rate per year since we face increasing cash taxes year-on-year. Now let me briefly wrap up with the key takeaways. We continue to see service revenue growth across all segments. While revenue growth moderated somewhat in Q3, we anticipate a recovery in the fourth quarter. Our commercial momentum remains solid, and we continue to lead the Dutch fiber market. Our net add developments in both fixed and mobile and both in consumer and business was quite satisfactory in Q3. As expected and planned for, EBITDA growth was relatively soft in Q3, but is set to recover in Q4. Cash flow generation was strong, up more than 10% year-to-date. Overall, we're on track this year and continue to make good progress towards our annual and midterm targets, and we reiterate our guidance for the year. Finally, as we approach the halfway point of our strategy, we can't wait and look forward to providing you with an update of our strategy next week, on November 5. Thanks for listening and turn to your questions.

Matthijs van Leijenhorst: Yes. Thanks, Chris. Operator, please open the line for the Q&A. Please limit your questions to 2 please.

Operator: [Operator Instructions] Our first question is from Polo Tang of UBS.

Polo Tang: I have 2. The first one is, is there any update in terms of the Glaspoort acquisition of part of the DELTA Fiber footprint? And my second question is, we have a general election in the Netherlands this week, but is this having any impact on public sector spending in terms of your B2B segment?

Joost Farwerck: Yes, Polo, thanks for the questions. The Glaspoort acquisition, it takes our regulator a very long time to come to a final opinion. So as you know, Glaspoort intends to acquire a rural fiber footprint of approximately 200,000 house passed from DELTA Fiber, and it's still under ACM review. We expect, well, something within 1, 2 months because it takes really too long. We think it's still no reason to refuse it. This could reduce overbuild risks for both parties and supports healthy market development. Then elections coming up in the Netherlands, that's tomorrow, by the way. We -- on the midterm, we see limited impact on KPN. Major topics in the elections are immigration, health care, housing markets. Well, the government wants to build more houses, and we think that's a good one because then we can take them into the house pass footprint. Topics that could affect KPN on the longer term are about investments in defense, and we're in good position on that. We are selected as the main digital provider for the Ministry of Defense and discussions around fiscal affairs, for instance, the innovation box facility and the share buyback taxation, but that's a vacant faraway remark somewhere from one of the left wing parties. So all in all, I don't expect that much impact for KPN.

Polo Tang: Just on public sector, can I just clarify if there's any freezing of public sector spend into an election or out of an election because we see that sometimes in other markets?

Joost Farwerck: No, not really. We have some kind of a framework. So when elections are coming up and when a Cabinet falls in the Netherlands, then they select a couple of topics that they have to continue to run. And we are all convinced in the Netherlands that we should keep on investing in the themes I just mentioned. And also when it comes to cybersecurity and digital, there's no slowing down there from the government, and we are heavily involved in there.

Operator: And our next question comes from Mollie Witcombe of Goldman Sachs.

Mollie Witcombe: My first question is on B2B. You have said that you've seen some price pressure in mobile and B2B. Could you give us a little bit more color on this? Are you seeing this dynamic both in LCE and in SMEs? And to what extent should we consider this when we're looking at longer-term trends going into 2026? And my second question is just on the B2C competitive environment. What are you seeing in terms of competition? And have there been any incremental differences versus last quarter?

Hans Figee: On your question on mobile price pressure, mostly in LCE and larger corporate tickets, there is some price pressure going on. I think that I would say from our point of view, there's still some of the decline, but the decline is declining. So you can say the second derivative is positive, but that's a bit of a nerdy view. But I would say expected LCE, some repricing of our base into next year, but then probably we have good hope it's going to be bottoming out, at least. So there is some price decline, but it's getting a bit better. We saw something similar in SME, but SME, we especially be able to counter that with value-added services by selling more security solutions to customers. So keeping our ARPU up. So there is some price pressure, most notable in LCE, but gradually abating. So we'll go into next year, but I think somewhere during the course of this year, that effect we hopefully [ achieve that ]. And SME, it's much less prevalent. And there, we see and have experienced good opportunities to counter that with additional value-added services like additional bundlings, but mostly security services around SME to keep your ARPU stable there.

Joost Farwerck: Yes. And on the competitive environment, well, like in Q2, the market remains competitive in consumer markets, so Odido and VodafoneZiggo, especially. VodafoneZiggo launched a new proposition, broadband fixed on their cable network, a 2-gig proposition recently announced. So interesting to see how they will do there. But impact on KPN expected to be limited because our first proposition is 1 gig, and we also offer 4 gig. So most of the new customers land in 1 or 4 gig via our fiber network. And for us, it's very important to play our own game. So we focus on base management, for instance, on convergence households via CombiVoordeel, resulting in lower copper and fiber churn and 11,000 net adds. We also are very happy with the acquisition of Youfone because on the lower end of the market, you call it that way, there's true competition going on. So Youfone covers that. And currently, more than already 2/3 of our broadband base is on fiber, and that's leading to lower churn and higher NPS. So that's how we position ourselves in this competitive environment.

Operator: And our next question comes from Paul Sidney of Berenberg.

Paul Sidney: [Technical Difficulty] revenue growth, it did slow into Q3 at the group level. There's obviously lots of moving parts...

Matthijs van Leijenhorst: Paul, paul.

Paul Sidney: Can you hear me?

Matthijs van Leijenhorst: We couldn't hear the first part. Could you start over again? Thanks.

Paul Sidney: Sure. Can you hear me now okay?

Matthijs van Leijenhorst: Perfect, perfect.

Paul Sidney: Okay. Great. Yes, just a first question on service revenue growth. We did see it slow into the quarter at the group level. There's lots of moving parts, and you've given some great granularity in terms of the drivers of that. But as we head into Q4, how confident are you that we can see an acceleration in that service revenue growth trend? And then secondly, just looking a bit bigger picture, you report very comprehensive KPIs, very detailed guidance, net add, service revenue growth, NPS scores, free cash flow and returns guidance. I was just wondering, if we take a step back, which of those is most important to KPN as a business in terms of what really is sort of driving the business? And maybe we get more detail on next week, but just really interested to hear your views on that.

Hans Figee: Yes. Paul, let me give you some more granularity on how we see service revenue growth developing. I'm going to just walk you through the business. I think the second question is a typical CEO question.

Joost Farwerck: Yes, for sure.

Hans Figee: I'll leave that to you. Look, on consumer, fixed is showing 1% service revenue growth. We've had tailwinds from a price increase, some headwinds from migration from front to back book discounts, et cetera. I think overall, the good news is that churn is actually reducing. The churn is doing better than ever. It's one of the best churn quarters in fixed in some time to come. Also please note, we have a CombiVoordeel product, which we give customers with multiple products, additional discounts leading to lower churn. That additional discount feeds through the top line. So that affects top line and fixed service revenue growth by almost 0.5% this quarter and even more in next quarter. So for Q4, we expect fixed service revenues to come in at a 0.4%, 0.5%, but that's really the accounting and the upfront payment on these additional discounts that lead to churn. So the discount, especially to multi-converged customers, and we're seeing benefits of churn on that. We'll give you more intel next week because that feeds into [ '26 ]. In mobile, you see a price increase coming in has already come in, has landed pretty well. So I would expect mobile consumer to be around 1.5% in the fourth quarter, fixed below 1% and mobile well above 1% then go to B2B. I see SME recover. I mean there was some technicality in the SME numbers, but it's also, I think, good base and ARPU development, especially in the third quarter. And a little bit easier comps, I would say SME should be 4% to 5% again in the fourth quarter and also in that into the next year. LCE hovering around 0. And on the Tailored Solutions business, there's always some volatility in this business that has to do with the timing of projects. For example, if you go back to last year, we saw growth -- service revenue growth in Q3, from 5% to 2% back to 5%. There's always a bit of volatility in this business due to the nature of these activities. In the third quarter, we saw the effects of KPN condition more steering on margins. So we lost some business. Some of it we didn't actually mind because there was actually 0 margin revenues and underlying this growth in defense spending. So I'd expect the Tailored Solutions business to be back around 2% to 3% in the fourth quarter, which should bring B2B to around 3%. Wholesale, I would say, probably around 4% to 5-ish in the fourth quarter. So that means overall service revenues in Q4, I would say, around 2%, probably 2% or a bit up. But that's the moving parts. Some of it has to do with technicalities. For example, as I said, in fixed service revenues, the accounting for the [indiscernible] cost shows up to revenues. It is showing up to churn, so it leads to real value, but short-term service revenues are a bit affected. Mobile should recover, SME should recover and the rest, I think I explained to you for probably around 2%-ish service revenue growth in Q4.

Joost Farwerck: Yes, Paul. And then your question on all the KPIs and the main target. I mean, yes, we try to keep things simple in our strategy. We're a single country operator. We're healthy, and we build a plan for all stakeholders. So we invest in the Netherlands, we invest in customers, we invest in our own people, and we want to reward our shareholders in a decent way. And for that reason, you're right, we give a lot of KPIs, which is about broadband base growth or base growth in broadband, mobile, SME, CAGRs on revenue, net Promoter Score, you name it all. At the end, we simplified everything by saying it's a 337 CAGR. So that's a top line EBITDA and cash. And if I have to make a choice, I say the 7, the cash is the most important one of those 3. And the rest is all leading. So sometimes you're a bit behind on the subsegment. Sometimes you're a bit speeding up somewhere, sometimes NPS is lower or higher. But at the end, it's very important that we get to that financial promise, and we're on track. So -- but it depends a bit on the stakeholder, I -- when it comes to the KPIs we focus on.

Operator: And the next question comes from David Wright of Bank of America.

David Wright: Just on VodafoneZiggo, they obviously announced their strategic shift earlier this year, pushing a little more into Q2. I'm sure we'll get a similar message on Q3. Are you observing -- how are you observing the sort of retail pushback now? They've obviously branded the 2 gigabit product. We've got a slightly keener pricing. Do you observe anything else? Is there a lot more marketing spend? Is the marketing different than it was before? Just any casual observations you might have on how they've changed [ TAC ].

Joost Farwerck: Well, the change we saw was the announcement on Superfast Internet. I think for the market, that's not that bad. I mean, on mobile, we all 3 move to unlimited, which is a good development for the total market. And if the total market moves to higher speed broadband, wouldn't be that bad, I guess. But we play our own game. So like I mentioned, customers come in on 1 or 4 gig, and that's difficult to copy. So, so far, it's more an announcement then I see real movements in the market. Chris, anything to add on?

Hans Figee: Yes. I mean when I look at, for example, our broadband net adds and fiber net adds, fiber net adds have been steady, net adds. But if you exclude all the copper migrations, fiber real new clients come in around 60,000 to 70,000 for quite some time now. So it's pretty steady. We've seen churn coming down. So we've seen churn coming down in both fiber and copper. That churn reduction started in Q2 and continued in Q3. So that's actually positive. And we don't want to steer just by the month, but when I look at just the simple October numbers, the order balances and the early indication of the month of October are fine. So at this point, it feels that we are obviously cognizant that it's a serious competitor out there. But in terms of underlying performance, no change in recent trends from where we are right now. In fact, churn has come down and things have not fallen off a cliff in the month of October.

Operator: And our next question comes from Joshua Mills of BNP Paribas.

Joshua Mills: A couple of questions from my side. Firstly, it's been about a year since Odido launched FWA services across the Netherlands. I wondered if you could give an update on how you think that's impacted the competitive landscape and whether it is impacting on your wholesale line losses as well or whether that's due to other factors? And then secondly, if I just build on that wholesale line loss question, trends look to be similar to the last couple of quarters. How would you expect that to develop over the next couple of years? And do some of the more aggressive promotions we're seeing from your ISP partners go anyway to help with that trend going forward, even if it's painful on the retail side?

Joost Farwerck: Yes, fixed wireless access from Odido, we see activations on fixed wireless access, but it's also a different market than the broadband market in general in the Netherlands. So it's also a bit of a niche market for people camping, people on holiday, people in boats. So therefore, it's useful. It's also used as another option than whole buy on our network or on DELTA's network. So for Odido, they are asset-light on fixed and they are asset-heavy on mobile. So they try to clearly sell more customers, fixed wireless access to leverage the asset and to avoid the wholesale payments. But it's not really impactful when it comes to total broadband market share. So we use it as well, by the way, in super rural areas, but we always use it in combination with the fixed line. So for us, convergence is, as you know, the strategy. So in copper areas, the speed of the Internet connection can be supported by bonding via fixed wireless access. And probably, we're going to use that more frequently in the rural areas.

Hans Figee: Yes. And Joost, on the wholesale side, if you look at the line losses in wholesale, that's really only copper. So wholesale fiber is growing from our main customer and wholesale copper is declining. As we understand, that decline is mostly related to the switching of the Tele2 brand, so the switching of a brand and the switching of the brand leads to customer migration. That's the main driver for losses in copper and wholesale. I expect that to continue in Q4 and possibly in Q1, but that's probably -- then the light at the end of the tunnel. I think that's the end in sight on that development. And then, for example, broadband service revenues, I think we're up about 2% this year. I think broadband service revenues in mobile will be plus 2% this year. Next year, around flattish is a combination of fiber growth indexation and the decline in that copper part. So I think when I look at it, it's mostly the line loss in copper related to the switching off of a brand, and that is a project that will come to an end, I would say, next -- somewhere mid- to early Q1, I would expect that impact to really to fade away.

Operator: And our next question comes from Keval Khiroya of Deutsche Bank.

Keval Khiroya: I've got 2 questions, please. So you've done quite well on consumer broadband despite the competitive backdrop. But how do you think about the gap between front and back book pricing in broadband? Do you get many requests from customers to move to the current cheaper promos in the market? And secondly, helpfully, you commented on wholesale broadband. But how do we think about the level of mobile wholesale growth next year? Obviously, sponsored roaming has been quite helpful. And does that continue? Any insights on the level of growth next year would be helpful.

Joost Farwerck: Yes. So we shifted a bit on strategy as we announced last year, and that is invest more in existing customers instead of playing the acquisition game. We think it's very important to make a difference against the more challengers in the market. And investing in the customer base also leads to back book front book migrations. So that's how revenues in broadband are impacted, and that's why you only see 1 point something on service revenue growth while we do a price increase of 3. Having said that, that's part of our plan. And so when we move customers into what we call combination -- CombiVoordeel, then they have to sign up for 2 years, and that's leading to a back book front book migration. But -- so we made it part of our strategy.

Hans Figee: Yes. And Keval, on the wholesale side, yes, indeed, we've been quite successful in mobile service revenue growth in wholesale. I expect that to continue. I don't plan on this level of growth going forward. But we have a decent funnel of potential new counterparties signing up in these type of businesses. And then we have a number of these clients that we help to win new business. So we work them for them to win new businesses. So I expect continued growth in this business going forward, perhaps not at the same pace. I think wholesale should be able to grow around 4% or so top line growth next year, all in with flattish broadband service revenue growth and the remainder is mobile. So continued growth, but let me be a bit conservative and not project the same level of growth, but wholesale around 4% service revenue growth next year is definitely feasible with all of this.

Operator: And our next question comes from Ajay Soni of JPMorgan.

Ajay Soni: Mine is just around the FTE reduction. So I think you're 300 lower year-over-year, which seems to be around 3% of your employee base. So my first question is just around why is this not being reflected maybe more obviously within your EBITDA bridge? Are there any other headwinds which are -- which means it isn't reflected? And I think looking further ahead, can you accelerate this FTE reductions over the next year, so they are more meaningful in 2026?

Joost Farwerck: Yes. Thanks for the question. And next week, we will update you on what we are doing on transformation programs and how we look at the company in a couple of years from now and what kind of operating model we're building. And as a result of that, yes, we expect more FTE reduction. So why don't you see the minus 300 already impacting our EBITDA. First of all, we have a CLA increase. We -- other increased pension costs. So we have to cover up for, I don't know, 6% something of increasing wage costs. And secondly, it's also about the timing in the year. So the 300 will kick in on a higher scale next year than this quarter. But moving the company to a lower FTE base as a result of quality improvements and digitalization is very important also to cover costs and to make a step down.

Operator: And our next question comes from Siyi He of Citi.

Siyi He: I have 2, please. The first one is really on the comments of the Q4 service revenue growth of 2%. Just trying to think about the trend for next year. I think you mentioned that the B2B and wholesale trend probably is going to be similar level to Q4. And I'm just wondering if you can comment what kind of tailwinds that you would expect to basically help the service revenue growth to accelerate from the 2% to the midterm guidance of 3% and my second question is basically on fiber rollout. I'm sure that you will cover it next week. But just wondering if you can give us some color of how should we think about the fiber CapEx considering that there seems going to be a decent acceleration needs to be done to meet the above 80% coverage target.

Joost Farwerck: Well, on the fiber CapEx, we clearly guided to the market that we will make a step down in 2027, and we still plan for that. So we expect a step down of at least EUR 250 million. That's in our guidance, and we stick to the guidance. Chris?

Hans Figee: Yes. I mean on the service revenue growth, we'll give you a lot more details -- next week on our capital strategy update -- on the full capital market strategy update, we'll give you more details. But think of consumer to be growing around 1.5%, I think B2B north of 3%, B2B around 4%, and that should make for top line growth, but more in details next week. B2B 3, wholesale 4, yes.

Operator: And the next question comes from David Vagman of ING.

David Vagman: The first one, coming back on the competitive environment in broadband. If you can comment on your view on your expectation rather on the potential ARPU evolution, in mind speed tiering, but also competition, the announcement of VodafoneZiggo and the tweaking of offers by Odido yesterday. And then second question on the broadband wholesale market in the Netherlands, also your expectation on the ARPU side for KPN?

Joost Farwerck: Yes. So on the -- I mean, the market is competitive. It will stay competitive, and I don't expect that to change. The difference between the Netherlands and most other markets is that we have a fully fiberized country already almost. So we're -- 90% of the households already are covered by fiber networks. All households are connected to at least 2 networks fixed. So what I want to say, our digital infrastructure fixed is of a super high level compared to other countries. So there is a competition between the fixed players, but I don't expect much competition coming in from fixed wireless access or satellite or other things you see in countries covering more rural areas as well, like -- and then -- so the competition will be firm, but we positioned ourselves, and I'm glad we did, by the way, we built a fiber footprint of almost 70%, more or less clean. And there's not that much appetite to overbuild us there. It will be more competitive in the new areas for us. So there, we can say to overbuild. We're waiting for our regulator to see what they do with that Glaspoort deal. But compared to other countries, I would say, yes, it is competitive. It is challenging, but we build a strong fiber footprint in the core of our strategy.

Hans Figee: Yes. And to your point on wholesale ARPUs in broadband, a couple of things at play. Of course, every year, we have indexation. There's a schedule approved and agreed with the regulator, effectively around 2% indexation every year. Our ARPU is supported by the mix shift from copper to fiber. So we see a decline in copper and increase in fiber, that is supportive. And then any ARPU actions that we do to support our broadband -- for broadband partners tend to be linked to retention, tend to be for specific higher speeds or tend to be around linked to volume commitments. So basically, I would say ARPUs in wholesale broadband are pretty much the same and often linked to a combination of mix, price increases and/or specific agreements on retention and volume.

Operator: And the final question is from Ottavio Adorisio of Bernstein.

Ottavio Adorisio: A couple of follow-up questions. On Slide 8, you effectively stated that you expect bottoming up on the mobile. And during the call, effectively, you highlighted the price increases. But when someone look at the chart, you can see that, that revenue trends bottom up already in Q4 and deteriorated afterwards. So my question is that what makes you confident that the price increase will stick this time around, we don't go to promotion later on and the revenue trends deteriorate again? The second one is on the broadband. The churn for copper for your copper customers is stable, you stated that one. But looking at the numbers, you look at the migration from copper to fiber to be the lowest this quarter over the past 2 years. So my question is that there is any plan to encourage migration by reducing the price gap between copper and fiber?

Hans Figee: Yes. On the first question, what happened -- what will happen from Q3 to Q4, what happened last year? Well, Q4 last year was a very particular quarter where a few things happened. We saw a temporary drop, actually, an accounting drop with roaming that actually reversed in the first quarter. You can see in the first quarter, sales revenue growth in mobile going up had to do with the accounting and booking of some roaming revenues. Second, we had an iPhone credit. If you recall well last year, we had some iPhone disturbances for which we gave some of our customer specific credits to compensate for that. I mean the iPhone disturbances are on hold for the end customers. And thirdly, we had a special offer in the market in that very fourth quarter. So a couple of particular trends that took down growth in the fourth quarter to a low level after which it rebounded in Q1 last year. So those were particular impacts on that third quarter, fourth quarter, and I don't expect them to repeat. So that gives me some comfort that, that blip that you saw last year will not come again this year. And the second question on copper upgrades to fiber. We really try to upgrade customers to fiber. It's a function of network rollout. It's a function of planning. It's a function of access to customers that fluctuates a bit over time. There's no strategic or technical retweet in this part, if you see what I mean. It has to do with timely and operational execution. We will continue to migrate customers from copper to fiber. We might actually, at the point in the midterm, try to accelerate that to enable the switch off of our copper network to accelerate. Joost, do you want to add?

Joost Farwerck: Well, the unique thing of our fiber footprint is that we're building a fiber footprint with 80% of the households homes connected. And that's first of all to migrate all existing customers of KPN to the fiber network. That's the copper churn or the urban copper migration. Then we want to connect a lot of new customers, and then we want to connect as well a lot of wholesale connections. So there's more room on the network of households already prepared for an activation from a distance. So the copper migration is something that's really in our system to finalize to switch off the copper network as well.

Matthijs van Leijenhorst: Okay. One final question.

Operator: And our final question comes from Joshua Mills from BNP Paribas.

Joshua Mills: Possibly a pedantic one here. But if I look at Slide #6 in the presentation where you have homes passed as a percentage of Dutch households, you have the target of 80%. And I don't see a year associated with that. I think in previous presentations, you were highlighting that you'd reach 80% homes passed coverage by the end of 2026. Can you just confirm that that's still the guidance and there's no change there, just so I'm clear.

Joost Farwerck: Well, so yes, we are expanding our fiber footprint this year, next year and the years after, 74,000 homes passed, 82,000 homes connected this quarter. We stick to 66,000 because if you read it as well as you did. And last quarter, we also reported 66,000, but that's because of annual addition of households by CBS, the Central Bureau of Statistics in the Netherlands. And we stick to our ambition of 80% of Dutch households on fiber. But next week, during our strategy update, we'll share how we will get there within our financial framework. So we aim for 80%, and we confirm our midterm ambition of 3 targets, including the CapEx step down of to EUR 1 billion in 2027.

Joshua Mills: Okay. And just -- so to be clear, the explicit target previously of reaching 80% by the end of 2026 is...

Joost Farwerck: I've said earlier in previous calls as well that there's a lot of KPIs like we just discussed out there. And sometimes we meet -- we're getting faster, sometimes we're slowing down. The 80% is also a target, which is a very important one for us, and we will meet it for sure. But on the timing part, we will get back to you next week. And at the end, it's for us very important that the overall total strategy works, and that's working.

Matthijs van Leijenhorst: Okay. That concludes today's session. Obviously, we will see -- we'll meet online next week during our strategy -- next Wednesday on the 5th of November. See you then. Cheers.

Operator: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's presentation. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect your line. Have a nice day.