TFI International Inc.TFIINYSE
Loading
Operator: Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to TFI International's Fourth Quarter 2025 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that this conference call may contain statements that are forward-looking in nature and is subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. I would also like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded on February 18, 2026. Joining us on the call today are Alain Bedard, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer; and David Saperstein, Chief Financial Officer. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Alain Bedard. Thank you. Please go ahead, sir.
Alain Bedard: Well, thank you, operator, for the kind introduction, and thanks, everyone, for joining us on today's call. Last evening, we reported our quarterly results showing robust free cash flow driven by international initiatives and the hard work of our team. With overall freight dynamics showing modest signs of stabilization, the men and women of TFI are busy preparing for a potential industry rebound and controlling the controllables. . And another focus of ours, which you've heard me in emphasis many times is producing strong free cash flow regardless of the cycle. I'm pleased to say that we generated more than $10 per share of free cash flow in 2025 or $832 million for the year and notably, our fourth quarter free cash flow was 25% higher than the year ago figure. At TFI, we view this free cash flow as very important given our strong track record of strategic capital allocation. We intelligently invest for the long term, even during down markets, and whenever possible, return our excess capital to shareholders. As you may recall, during the fourth quarter, our Board again raised our dividend. And over the course of 2025, we continue our track record of opportunistic repurchase buying back over $225 million of common shares. Now let's turn to the other aspect of our fourth quarter results, total revenue before fuel surcharge of $1.7 billion compares to $1.8 billion a year earlier, and we generated $127 million of operating income, reflecting a margin of 7.6. Our net cash from operating activities improved meaningfully to $282 million, which was up 8% over the prior year quarter. And our free cash flow from the quarter was $259 million, reflecting a 25% year-over-year increase, as I mentioned. Taking a more granular look at our business segment. Let's begin with LTL, which represent 39% of our segmented revenue before fuel surcharge. At $661 million, this was down 10% compared to a year earlier. However, we're able to improve our adjusted OR slightly more than expected to 89.9% relative to 90.3% in the year ago period. Our total LTL operating income was $62 million compared to $70 million a year earlier. We also generated for LTL a return on invested capital of 12.2%. Next up is Truckload, which was 40% of a segmented revenue before fuel surcharge at $674 million for the fourth quarter as compared to $693 million in the prior year. While tariff and the general economic uncertainty still affect freight volumes and excess capacity has been an industry-wide concern. We continue to seek growth opportunity that our network and our infrastructure are particularly well suited for. This includes both data center and the broader economic grid -- electric grid to market in which we've demonstrated recent successes. Our Truckload operating income of $48 million compares to $60 million a year earlier and our OR of 93.2% compared to 91.5%. So wrapping up on Truckload, our return on invested capital came in at 5.8%. Lastly, in our segment discussion, Logistics was 21% of segmented revenue at $358 million relative to $410 million in the fourth quarter of 2025. Operating income was $31 million versus $43 million last year, and this represents a margin of 8.7% versus the 10.5%. I'll note that despite slightly lower logistics revenue sequentially we were able to expand our operating margin by 30 basis points over the third quarter. And finally, our Logistic return on invested capital was 11.8. Shifting gears, our balance sheet is a pillar of our strength supported by the $830 million of free cash flow we produced during 2025, including more than $250 million during the fourth quarter alone. Both figures up year-over-year. We ended the year with a 2.5x debt-to-EBITDA ratio. And given this financial foundation, we continue to be an attractive dividend and repurchase more than $225 million worth of common shares during 2025, as I mentioned previously. We also continue to seek accretive bolt-on acquisition opportunities. And I'll conclude with our outlook as we entered the new year. For the first quarter, we look for adjusted diluted EPS to be in the range of $0.50 to $0.60. And for the full year 2026, we initially expect net CapEx, excluding real estate, to be in the range of $225 million to $250 million. As I mentioned in the past, our outlook assumes no significant change, either positive or negative in the operating environment. So before we open up the Q&A, you may also have seen our press release yesterday about the latest change to our Board of Directors. So I want, again -- I want to again express my gratitude to my friend Andre Berard for his more than 2 decades of service as a Director of TFI International, most recently as our Lead Director. His impact on our Board since 2003 has been enormously beneficial to the firm, and we all wish him all the very best to his upcoming retirement. I would also like to congratulate Diane Giard on their nomination as our new Lead Director. And now operator, if you could please open the lines for both David and myself, we'll be happy to take questions.
Operator: [Operator Instructions] And your first question comes from the line of Ravi Shanker from Morgan Stanley.
Unknown Analyst: This is Nancy on for Ravi. I was wondering if you could help give some guidelines around the fiscal year guide and potential scenarios to get there and how you're thinking about 2026 as a whole would be great.
Alain Bedard: Yes. Well, that's a very good question. So this is why we came out with our Q1, okay, with $0.50 to $0.60. I mean this is down year-over-year versus 2025 because we're still in a transition environment. The freight recession that we've seen since 2023, 2024 and 2025 is still persistent as we look at Q1. We're starting to see some very early signs in our Truckload sector that maybe things will start to get better, okay, during '26. This is very early. The change in the U.S. with the CDL and not renewing some permits as drivers, et cetera, et cetera okay? That may help the Truckload industry in general. On the Canadian side, the fact that now every owner operator or not an employee, but let's say, a Driver Inc. now has to -- will be issued a T4A, which is a kind of like a W-2 in the U.S. as an employee. So now he's got to report his income and pay taxes. So we're starting to see some people disappearing okay, in '26. But this is the very early days in the Truckload sector. On the LTL side, I mean, we're still in a very difficult environment, and we anticipate that it's still going to be the case for probably 2026 as a whole. On the Logistics side, though, I mean we feel really good that, okay, yes, our Q4 2025 was not as good as the previous year. But in terms of one of our divisions that moves trucks for the most important manufacturer in the U.S. Packard and Freightliner. We think that this is going to start improving by probably Q3 and Q4 going back to normal. So on the logistics side, we have a more clear path of the major improvement that we could see during the course of '26. Truckload early signs that things will probably get better, although nothing is sure, it's very early in 2026. We're just in February. On the LTL side, U.S., still very soft market. On the Canadian side, very soft market, too, but we do way better in Canada than we do in the U.S. because if you look at our revenue per shipment, number of shipments are down, okay, in Canada, the same as the U.S. But we're able to maintain an operating ratio very close to what we were doing, let's say, a year ago. So we have a better control on our costs still in Canada. If you look at our claim ratio, for example, which is like unbelievable. Were close to 0 in Q4 on the Canadian LTL side. And we're still at 0.9% of revenue on the U.S. side, which is an area that we definitely have to improve during the course of '26. I mean we had some better quarters on that in that regard on the claims side, and we need to focus more on that, and this is a big area of focus in terms of improving our service on the U.S. LTL side with our customers. So you don't want to break the customers' freight or lose it, right?
Unknown Analyst: Got it. That's very helpful. I guess touching on that a bit more. Do you guys feel ready for the up cycle that comes within U.S. LTL with the idiosyncratic changes you have made? Or is there a lot more work within 2026.
Alain Bedard: No, we're ready -- I mean, we are really ready. I mean in terms of the management tools that we have today versus, let's say, just 2, 3 years ago, I mean we are very well equipped. We have financial information by terminal now. We've implemented Optym on our line all. We have Optym also implemented, which is a software on our delivery side, okay, now we're going to Phase 2, which is going to be also implemented for the pickup side. So I mean, we're ready. We have the tools. We are improving our team on the commercial side. I mean, we have way more stability in our sales force than ever, okay. So our friend, Mr. Traikos has done a fantastic job of creating some stable environment in the sales team, understanding the focus of what these guys need to do. And I think that probably for the first time, it's still early in the game, but in Q1, we're probably for the first time in a long time, show that our shipment count is about equal to the one of the previous year. Very early still, okay? But if you look at Q4, we were down 10%. We're down 6%, 7% in Canada, but down close to 10% in the U.S. So it would be quite an accomplishment as a first step, okay, to be able to at least maintain the volume that we had in Q1 '25.
Operator: And your next question comes from the line of Jordan Alliger from Goldman Sachs.
Jordan Alliger: Yes, I hear your thoughts around the demand environment. I'm just sort of curious as we roll into the -- or through the first quarter. Is there a way you could give some additional color as to perhaps the segment margin-related drivers behind the $0.50 to $0.60 EPS guide, again, realizing that you're not assuming much change in the operating environment, but maybe give some sense for shape of those margins as we move forward seasonally .
Alain Bedard: Well, that's a very good question, Jordan. And so this is why I'll pass it on to David, which is our CFO.
David Saperstein: Jordan. So we're looking at probably around 250 basis points of sequential margin deterioration in the U.S. LTL. And I just want to qualify that by saying that Q1 is unique in the year and that it's very back-end weighted to March. And so it's very difficult to get a sense for the trends based on January and the first half of February. And this year, particularly so, because we lost at least 100 basis points related to weather, which caused us to have a lot of overtime expense, et cetera. So we anticipate around 250 basis point sequential deterioration, but it's heavily weighted towards March, which, of course, hasn't occurred yet, and we don't have perfect visibility into. In terms of Canadian LTL about the same in terms of the sequential move, P&C is 1,000 basis point down and 15% revenue down sequentially, which is normal seasonality for us, Q4 being a peak season in the P&C. Specialty Truckload, like Mr. Bedard was saying, we are seeing some early signs of positive things in the Truckload. And so we expect to be flat sequentially from Q4 to Q1 in the Specialty Truckload. Canadian Truckload, a little bit of erosion, maybe 100 basis points margin deterioration sequentially and then Logistics are around 150 basis points.
Jordan Alliger: All right. Great. And just out of curiosity, I know the weather has had an impact. Are you able to share a little bit more color around, I know March is so important, how's January, February volumes? And is it possible? I know you alluded to it a little bit, can you still make that up in March on the tonnage side for LTL?
David Saperstein: Well, listen, the January was very, very difficult, both from a volume perspective and from a cost perspective, because of the costs associated with the weather and the disruptions and the inefficiencies that, that caused. February, we saw volumes tick up, and that's why Mr. Bedard is making a reference to potentially being flat year-over-year in volumes. We'll see how the pricing follows as it relates to that. But we can see that the volumes are -- did tick up in Feb.
Operator: And your next question comes from the line of Walter Spracklin from RBC Capital Markets.
Walter Spracklin: Good morning, everyone. So you mentioned some of the improvement that you're seeing, and David just mentioned it as well in the fundamentals of trucking attributed to some of the CDL and [indiscernible] previously testing. Are you seeing that now build into your pricing, your contract pricing. We see pricing move on the spot side. But are you seeing at all any improvement in pricing on a contracted basis, particularly in U.S. LTL or if it is differentiated by segment or region, if you could touch on that.
Alain Bedard: Yes. That's a very good question also, Walter, because spot moves first. And when the shippers start to see a movement upward in the spot, they try to get into a long-term agreement with you with those low rates, right? So to answer your question, yes, spot are up. On the van side, I mean we're starting to -- it's also inflation for us on the line haul for our LTL, because some of our LTL is moved by third parties, okay? And we saw price moving up in Q1 so far. But on the contract rate, it takes more time. It takes more time Walter, so that shippers are going after you, commit to long-term pricing at these low rates. And as a trucker, what you normally say is let's wait, let's wait and see. So for now, no, on the long-term rates, it's still not as good as the spot rate, but we believe that the fact that the it's always an offer and demand balance. So the offer is starting to reduce, okay? The demand is still not great, okay? This is the issue we have for the last few years is that the offer has always been growing because of the '21, '22 COVID area where we added so much capacity, okay, that now we're stuck with overcapacity. And now the offer is starting to reduce a little bit and the demand is still not very strong, but we anticipate that if the demand starts to go upward and the offer is also being reduced. So this is why as 3PL they're starting to see some pressure, because the trucker are asking for more money and they can't get that kind of money from the shipper yet. So a little bit of pressure on rates for our, let's say, our 3PL organization. But long term, medium term, for sure, the contract rates will start to go up. If this trend of reducing the offer and a little bit of increase in the demand continues in '26.
Walter Spracklin: Okay. That's fantastic. I'd like to go back to your guide now and just reflecting some of the inbounds I'm getting in the sense that you delivered much better than your guide had -- your guide for Q4 had been set at 80 to 90, you came in it with [indiscernible]. Can you talk a bit about the different. What we could see what we had been forecasting relative to what you came in with, but really internally, where was the area of outperformance? And is that area of outperformance now built into your guide for Q1 as well?
Alain Bedard: Well, you know what, Walter, like David was saying, the problem that we face is that we are giving guidance on Q1 based on horrible month of January, right? And a very early, okay, signs of improvement in February. So this is why we're cautious. I mean, -- this is what we believe it could be delivered by our operation, okay? Hopefully, we do better than that like we did in Q4. But then again, the other problem we have Walter until we have a deal between U.S., Canada and Mexico, which is supposed to come, let's say, in the summer of '26 even if the market -- there is a reduction in the offer, the demand is still not very strong. So this is why we have to be very careful until such time that we have a new agreement between the 3 countries where our customers knows what's going to happen in the future, then we're going to feel way better, okay, in terms of being able to forecast what can the company deliver in terms of our profitability.
Operator: And your next question comes from the line of Brian Ossenbeck from JPMorgan.
Brian Ossenbeck: I just wanted to hear a little bit more about the Specialty Truckload business, obviously, heavy industrial there. So assuming not seeing too much of an uptick yet, but we've seen a little bit of life in the PMI, but I also want to hear a little bit more about the data centers, the electrical grid, the things that probably have maybe a little bit more longer tail to them, but I'm not sure how big they are and how fast they're growing at this point. So maybe some more details on the industrial side with those 2 in focus.
Alain Bedard: Yes. Yes. You know what? This is something new for us, right? And this is coming right now, okay. It's our Lone Star operation out of Texas that is really the one being involved in wind, although wind is going to be quite active in '26 and moving some equipment for the data center. One of our latest acquisition is also bidding on some job up north in Michigan in those northern states in the U.S. So that could be a positive for us if these guys were able to win these adventures. So I mean, we are an industrial carriers in our Truckload. We're not a retail guy, okay? We are industrial. And for sure, let's say, on building we start moving in the right direction in that regard. Okay, that's going to help. Whereas in the meantime, this is why we created this job of Chief Commercial Officer for all of our U.S. Truckload with [ Mr. Huppi ] that is now in charge of working, okay, all of our network participants in that sector. So we are deeply focused on what is moving now. And what is moving now is where the major investments are in the energy sector and wind, solar and the data center. So that's our area of focus right now. But hopefully, the other sector, okay, of the industrial, which is construction material and all that starts to move in '26. Now like I said, with this latest acquisition that we've done late in '25, these guys are very good. Hopefully, they're successful in those bids, and we'll see, because this could be a very interesting win for us. So we'll see if these guys are able to get the ball moving on that. So all in all, we started, okay, like we said, we're just seeing a little bit of the early sign of some industrial activity, which is our world. I mean we're not a van carrier that moves retail freight, right, for, let's say, a Walmart or Amazon. I mean us, we move steel, we move aluminum, we move building material, et cetera, et cetera. So that's our core, okay. Same in Canada, too, right? So hopefully, this starts to move. And like you said, there's some movement on PMI. Hopefully, those major investments starts to increase. Under the new administration, we're hopeful that this is -- this will happen.
Brian Ossenbeck: All right. Maybe just a follow-up on the TFF, TForce side of things, for shipment looks like it's stabilizing a bit here. Talking about getting back to maybe flat tonnage growth here in the quarter and maybe improving from there. Is that service and network dependent? Or is that more of a -- all of the economy, I would assume it's more of the former, but just wanted to see how far along you are with that -- with those improvements to the point where you could maybe grow a little bit faster than what the market is giving you.
Alain Bedard: Yes. See, our focus to us is if you look at what we do in Canada in terms of our weight per shipment is way higher than what we do in the U.S. Why is that? Because you have to understand that TForce rate used to be UPS freight. And their focus was retail, like UPS per se. And as we're saying, forget about retail as much as you can move away from retail and let's move freight, that is based on the industrial base. So this is why our weight per shipment since we bought the company, it went from about 10.75 to 12 something now, 12.25, 12.50. Right? And the push is to continue to move into that sector of industrial LTL versus retail LTL. We understand that a lot of the retail stuff more and more, okay, will be controlled by the gig economy, by the Amazon and all that. So this is why we're saying to our guys in the U.S., let's focus on the industrial sector of the economy versus the retail sector of the economy. Now the problem, like I just said earlier, is that the industrial economy is slow, it's very soft, right? But this is why it may be a little bit more difficult to do this transition. But that's the focus of ours is to move away as much as fast as we can, okay, from the retail economy, because we're seeing what's happening, okay, with the gig economy with the Amazon and all the others one. So guys, that's changed, okay, the focus. We've been quite successful so far, okay, doing that, but we need to improve more. We have to be closer to 1,400, 1,500 pound shipments, because don't forget, you're paid -- normally, you're paid by the weight. And the cost is not based on the weight. The cost is based on the movement, right? So you move a pallet that's a 1,000 pounds or move a pallet that's 1,500 pound. The cost is about the same. May be different on the line haul. But line haul the issue is always [ queued ] before weight.
David Saperstein: Yes. And the service point continues to be very important for us, Brian, and that's how we're looking to grow and move. I mean it's true that we took a step back on the claims ratio. But the other service metrics are moving in the right direction. I can tell you that in Q4, the miss pickups were 1.5%, down from 3.3% a year ago, reschedules at 8%, down from 12% a year ago. On time is flat, around 91%. And then we've continued to increase our small, medium-sized shippers as a percent of total, it's around 28% of total revenue, that's up from 25% a year ago.
Operator: And your next question comes from the line of Jason Seidl from TD Cowen.
Jason Seidl: I wanted to touch base a little bit on the data center comments and I think you called it out in the previous release, and you guys typically don't do that. Maybe you could dig a little bit deeper and let us know sort of how big you think this can get for TFI.
Alain Bedard: Well, you know what, Jason, like I said, I mean, right now, before this acquisition that we did late '25, I mean we were only servicing the data center world, okay, through our Texas operation at Lone Star. Okay? And this is something new for those guys. It's like it's something new for the industry in general. So -- because these guys used to be big with wind and energy in Texas. So now we're saying, okay, this is great, but how about data center. So let's -- so we are kind of very close to what's this builder Bechtel, okay? So we're trying to work very closely with those guys. But now with this new acquisition that we just made late in the year, those guys that are operating more like in the Michigan area. Those guys are also very close to a builder there that's been awarded to data center. One for Meta, one for Google. And hopefully, we could continue to work for this builder okay, to support them in those two data centers. So this is -- could be a win for us. If ever, our team is successful out there. So this is what we're trying to do is build some kind of a recipe partnering with the builder of those centers, like the Lone Star guys are with Bechtel and our guys up north are with a different builder. So this is what we're trying to do. And then once this is -- this data center has been completely built, they will need servicing, right? So that's also something that we're trying to get into and to grow that business. We have lots of experience in Texas with Lone Star and moving very expensive -- like we did a move for one of the energy company, ConocoPhillips that was valued at about just doing the move, if I remember correctly, it was like close to $1 million just to move this kind of equipment, right? So these guys are really good at what they're doing. And it's just like, okay, guys, so good for wind, good for energy, for the oil sector and all that. But data center is the new thing. So let's get up and running on that.
David Saperstein: And the approach is to approach -- the approach is to approach this as a consolidated group, right? And we have one of the larger flatbed fleets in the U.S. over $1 billion of U.S. Flatbed revenue. And we are going to market for the large customers as one so that they're in the area able to get that nationwide service. And so it's around the energy, it's around the construction. It's also around the high-value A lot of the materials or high value need to be on time. And so we have that skill set with the DoD top secret work that we do high-value freight as well.
Jason Seidl: That makes sense, David. And my follow-up, Alain, you touched on continuing to do acquisitions. There's been a lot of articles out that 2026 could be a big M&A year for the logistics group in general. Maybe talk a little bit more about that? I mean, are you still targeting a larger acquisition this year? Or is that going to be something that's more of a '27, '28 event?
Alain Bedard: Jason, in order to do a deal of large-size you got to be patient. And like I've always said, you make your money in the buying, never in the selling. So the price has to make sense and all that. So for sure, I mean, we could do something of size, the end of '26 into '27. But there, again, I'm looking at what's going on with everything that's going on in the market right now with -- on the parcel side and even on the LTL side. So you'll probably see us do some in '26, do some kind of smaller deals, okay, like the one we just did late in Q4. We just did one small deals in Minnesota to add to our Transport America division, okay, that makes a lot of sense. We may be doing some smaller deals in the LTL world in the U.S. So large deals takes time, right? And we have to be very careful. And like I said earlier, until we have a deal between the 3 countries, okay, in NAFTA kind of deal, right? Until we have that, it's very difficult to do a deal of size because you don't know what the rule is going to be. So this is why I'm saying it's impossible to do something now may be possible by the end of '26 but probably more like '27. And in the meantime, because of our free cash flow generation, we'll keep continuing to do smaller deals, okay, where the risk is different, okay? Now because of too much unknown on the deal between the 3 major partners in the world, which is U.S., Canada and Mexico.
Jason Seidl: Yes. Makes sense. Alain, you mentioned smaller deals on the LTL side. Will this be like buying cartage agents.
Alain Bedard: No, I would say it's probably -- I'll give you an example. You buy a small Texas regional guy as an example, okay? -- or you buy a regional guy in the Northeast, which is close to Ontario, Quebec, right? So that's what I'm saying by smaller deals. So it's not a national carrier. It could be a strong regional guy that covers one state like Texas or cover two or three states in the Northeast. This is more okay, what we are trying to do right now because a large deal in the U.S. LTL for us, it's not possible right now.
Operator: And your next question comes from the line of Tom Wadewitz from UBS.
Thomas Wadewitz: I wanted to try to drill down a little bit on the non-domiciled CDL impact and how to look at that in your business, right? So Truckloads is an extremely large market. where we expect the supply side benefit, but the benefit might be different in dry van versus specialty in flatbed. So do you have a sense of kind of how much non-domiciled CDL has impacted specialty flatbed, you were mentioning some of the skill sets are a little more unique in specialty. And I'm just trying to get a sense of like, well, is this really going to cause capacity to come out in dry van and then there's maybe less pricing impact to you. I know they're somewhat fungible, but just trying to get a little more sense of kind of how you would see the driver impact and whether you think there is a lot of activity in supply and specialty that's actually non-domiciled?
Alain Bedard: That's -- you know what -- this is a really good question, because so far, okay, we see way more, okay, on the van side than on the specialty truckload side, because what you just said I mean in the specialty, let's say, on a flatbed or on a tanker operation, there's more than just driving the truck. Right? Whereas the van, you just pick up a trailer and you drive it, right? So it's much easier than to tarp a load on a flatbed, right? So I don't know that, Tom, so far. It's very hard to put a finger on what the effect of that is going to be. But one thing is for sure is that we'll probably not see as much benefit as the van because it's probably less of an issue for our world, but it's a little bit like a domino effect, right? So once the spot moves okay, on the van, it starts to move on the reefer, we see also some movement on the price on the flatbed side year-over-year. It's starting to move. So I don't know if exactly -- is it because the supply is constrained or is it the demand that's more? My feeling would be more like not the demand because the demand in my mind, is still very soft and weak excluding the data center thing there or the energy sector. But I think it's an issue of the supply that's starting to constrain because our revenue per mile, although we still have some of our divisions that are not doing well on a revenue per mile basis because of market condition. But overall, okay, our revenue per mile is improving. I mean in Q1, okay, I think we're going to start to see those improvements, because we did not improve in Q4. That's for sure. I mean we -- I've never seen a Specialty Truckload OR at 93%, which is worse than my van 91 OR in Canada. This is not acceptable, absolutely not. But there's market condition to that. So that should -- we should see some improvement there. And is it because of the demand? Or is it because of the supply, I think it's a little bit the supply demand will probably improve over the course of '26 and '27 and CDL, is that helping us as much in the specialty world versus specialty Truckload world and than the van world, I think that probably it's a huge more benefit to the van world versus the specialty, but we're still getting I think improvement, because our revenue per mile is improving year-over-year as of now.
Thomas Wadewitz: Okay. That's great. And then a quick one for David or one or two for David. Just I want to make sure I understand your comments on U.S. LTL in 1Q. So if you see flat year-over-year shipments, then that would imply, I want to say, like 3% to 4% growth in shipments per day 1Q versus 4Q. So that would be kind of a meaningful improvement. So I don't know if you were saying kind of flat shipments sequential or year-over-year and if you're saying flat year-over-year, what might be driving the kind of the improvement in activity.
David Saperstein: Well, what's -- so it would be potentially flat year-over-year. Again, hard to say what's going to happen in March. But that was -- but it was -- the comment was with regard to year-over-year. What's driving the improvement is the sales team, the service and all of the things that we've been working on over the course of the past year. Now the revenue per shipment may not be positive, right? And that's the -- that's why we're looking at -- we'll see where the revenue per shipment is relative to year-over-year. But, but there is pricing pressure out there. And so that's going to be the offset to what could be strong volumes or stronger volumes as it relates to the profitability contribution.
Thomas Wadewitz: And 100 basis point comment on weather impact, that's a full quarter impact in U.S. LTL?
David Saperstein: Yes, we're estimating that we've lost like $5 million to $6 million already on the weather. Just through extra over time and just inefficiencies and cleaning up the dock and all that cost .
Alain Bedard: Yes, versus a normal environment, because some -- see the issue of the weather, we always have weather in Q1. So this is not something that we normally talk about. But this year, it's special, because it affected our big market, which is Northeast, Midwest and Texas, right? So if the weather is an issue in Idaho or in Utah, but not too big for us, right? But when it affects Chicago, when it affects Dallas, when it affects New York. I mean this is really, really difficult because Dallas, we were shut down for 3 days because of the ice. So what David is talking about $5 million, $6 million, this is over and above what we consider to be a normal environment of weather. I mean, this is -- we're not saying because we had -- no, no, this is exceptional for this year, because weather was really bad in our major sector, okay, for TForce Freight .
Operator: And your next question comes from the line of Konark Gupta from Scotiabank.
Konark Gupta: Maybe just a first one on the earnings side of things. I mean, as we kind of look into the back end of 2026, hopefully, conditions improve. But is Q4 going to face a tough comp from like the [ $1.19 ] EPS you reported for Q4 of 2025. I mean if I'm looking sequentially, you have like effectively a drop of 50% in EPS from Q4 to Q1 as guided, and that's a little bit wider than what you typically see, right? So I'm just trying to make sure, we're not missing anything when we are comping or lapping the Q4 2025 and Q4 '26.
Alain Bedard: Okay. So I think, Konark, that Q4, okay, 2025 versus '26 I think that we're going to be in a different position, okay, versus this year versus '25, reason being that I believe that our logistics will do way better in 4 '26 versus 4 '25 because our customers will be busier talking about the OEMs, the truck manufacturers, okay? And also the fact that we've had as an acquisition late in Q4 '25, a great company in our Logistics sector. So this is why on the logistics side, I think that we're going to do way better, okay, Q4 versus '25, '26. On the Truckload side, it's still -- I'm convinced that we're going to do better because I've never seen 93 OR. And we're taking some action, okay? I'll give you an example. One of our division on the West Coast which we are doing really well, okay, with certain accounts like the aerospace. So we have Boeing as a customer over there. We have Bombardier as a customer too. So we're doing really, really well with those guys, but we're doing so poorly with some other customers. So we took the bull by the horn, and we said, guys, no, no more of that, right? We have also another division that's from Daseke that is doing really well with one sector of their business, but they're doing really poorly with another sector. So there, again, we're going to take action there. So this is why, to me, I think that Steve and his team understand that we can run a Specialty Truckload with a 93 OR. This is completely unacceptable. And we're taking action over and above what we think that we're seeing some early signs of market improving. On the LTL side, like David was saying, I mean a big focus of Kal and the team there is really to improve our service, okay? And we are. We are improving our service. So as an example, we move way more freight on the road versus the rail. So the rail miles within TForce rates are down to about 20%. When we bought UPS rate, these guys were 38% to 40% on the rail. So for sure, when you move freight on the rail. You don't know, you don't control the service, because this is the rail, whereas if you do it yourself on the road, well, it's under your control. So we are improving our service as an example, just moving rail to road. Now like I said earlier, because we move that on a van and the van, okay, world's rate per mile is moving up, like we were talking about this environment is changing. It's also a little bit of pressure on our costs because where we used to pay, let's say, 220 miles. Now, okay, you could be start paying 250 to 270 or 280 a mile depending on the lane, right? So a little bit of pressure on that for us. But for sure, with better service, I believe that our commercial team with Chris and the rest of the boys there will help us grow for the first time organically in '26 year-over-year, right? So this is why you look at what we're saying about Q1, I think it's exceptional what we're seeing because it's still a very tough environment. Our customers don't know what's going to happen in the future because until we have a deal, like I said earlier, between U.S., Canada and Mexico, a lot of guys are sitting on the fence because don't forget, I mean, TFI is a U.S. carrier for about 75% of our revenue, but 25% to 30% of our revenue is Canadian, right? So a lot of our Canadian customers, they don't know what the future is. And also some of our U.S. customers are facing a tough time selling to Canada right now. So all of that being said, when we come up with $0.50 in Q1, it looks really bad versus $1 in Q4, but it's a special environment, okay? And we're cautious.
Konark Gupta: That's great clearly. And if I can follow up maybe on logistics. I think you mentioned that sequentially speaking, at least logistics margin expanded from Q3, don't be surprised to see that. So any color you can share in terms of what's driving this improvement? I mean, is it early days? Or is it the mix? Or is there something else? Like how should we extrapolate this performance at logistics into '26.
Alain Bedard: Yes. I think, Konark, that you see us improving during the course of '26. Like I said, because of this acquisition, okay, that we did because of our -- one of our large customers, the OEMs are also going to be busier. Our Canadian logistics is doing pretty good. We have a great business there. Our U.S. logistics is under a little bit of pressure with what's going on in the truckload sector in the U.S. where the rates are starting to move up on the spot. So you try to get a truck. It's a little bit more money, and you're stuck with contracted rates with customers, and these guys want to extend those contracts and we're saying, no, because the market is changing. So on the U.S. side, a little bit more pressure, okay, on our profitability there, maybe for the next few months. But all in all, I feel really good about where we're heading with our logistics. Logistics for us, with this new acquisition and a few things that we're working on should do better in '26 than in '25, Absolutely. The other thing also that's worth mentioning is that if you look at our Truckload brokerage operation in the U.S., I mean the revenue is up, okay, and it will continue to grow. So this is one area of focus of Steve and his team is to grow more of this asset-light operation versus asset-heavy operation and get a better mix like we have in Canada. In Canada, we won a hybrid model where we have our own assets, okay? But we also generate a lot of revenue without any assets. When we bought Daseke, they were doing some of that, but not a lot. So the goal doing in '25, '26 and '27 is to grow the share of the asset-light operation share of revenue, okay, versus the total revenue of the company. So you're way better positioned to improve your return on invested capital, because when you don't buy steel, your capital cost goes down, if the profitability or the revenue remains the same, your return on invested capital improved. And this is when we talk to the Truckload team say, we can't run a single-digit retail investor capital, guys. I mean if you do that, the future is bleak. So we got to do something. The market will help us, yes, but we need to help ourselves too.
Operator: And your next question comes from the line of Bruce Chan from Stifel.
J. Bruce Chan: You made some helpful comments around the road to rail shift in LTL. I think that makes a lot of sense for service. Maybe you could also remind us of what percentage of linehaul miles are currently outsourced on the LTL side, whether that's the truck or rail. And then given your fleet investments, do you have any plans to bring that number down this year? .
Alain Bedard: Yes. So what we do is about 20% on the rail, 20%, 22% on the rail. And then we have owner up, okay, and we have third party. So the third party and owner up probably our own guys do, if I remember correctly, David, tell me -- correct me if I'm wrong.
David Saperstein: Yes, our own guys are doing around 55%. Yes. So it's 45% outsourced.
Alain Bedard: And of the 45% outsourced, 20% of that is rail. So 25% is third party, owner up and third party.
J. Bruce Chan: Okay. Great. And then just maybe broad plans, if you're comfortable with that number as far as its use your model or whether you plan to bring that down over time?
Alain Bedard: Listen, I mean, for sure, okay, if you hold your average length of all is 1,000 and more, you have to have some rail, right? So I cannot answer is 20% the right number? I would say we're getting close to the right number if the average length of haul stays above 1,000 miles. Now one thing is for sure is the 55%, like David was mentioning with our own guys that could grow probably closer to 60%, okay? Over time, yes, because you have better control when it's your own people. But the rail at 20%, we're probably close. If we remain over 1,000 miles. We're probably close to the best that we could do. Now again, this is going back to the average weight per shipment that we went from $10.75 to $12 something -- the average length of haul is down a bit, but the discussion I'm having with Kal and the rest of the team is over time, okay, we need to change our approach to the market and reduce over time the average length of haul so that we don't touch the product 3 or 4 times. We touched the product less. So in order to touch the product less, you have to do less miles, less on the average length of haul, right? it's an evolution, okay, that's going to take place over time. But there, again, what I'm saying, if you run over 1,000 miles, you need the rail.
Operator: And your next question comes from the line of Ken Hoexter from Bank of America.
Ken Hoexter: So Alain, maybe just a bit of a contrasting message, so maybe some clarity. You noted a weak environment, but 1Q should be flat after a down 7% ton and down 11% shipment quarter. So maybe clarity on what's driving that near 50% EPS downtick in the first quarter. And then you throw in, "Hey, it's conservative, we could do better." So is it just the weather that's stepping you back? Are there gains in the fourth quarter or any impacts from the fourth quarter acquisitions in there? Maybe just some clarity on it. .
Alain Bedard: Yes. So David, do you want to give some clarity to Ken on that? .
David Saperstein: Yes, sure. I mean, look, in terms of gains or anything special in the fourth quarter, the only thing special in the fourth quarter was tax for about $5 million. Other than that, it's -- there is nothing onetime in nature. The -- in terms of what's driving is the trend of volumes up. It's the work that the team is doing. What may still weigh on the profitability though is the revenue per shipment and -- and so that's why the growth in volume may not be as profitable as otherwise would be. We'll just have to see how that plays out. And then more broadly, it's very, very difficult to, especially at TForce Freight to forecast the first quarter because all the money is made in March. That's just the nature of this business. And so when we're looking at a Jan and Feb that we're very difficult with or at least January, very difficult with the dynamics that we've talked about. There's a lot that's unknown. And so we've done the best that we can, and we are being conservative about what March might be when we put together that guidance.
Ken Hoexter: That was flat on shipments or on tonnage. I think you said both...
David Saperstein: The shipments year-over-year potentially on shipments. Yes.
Ken Hoexter: And then you previously noted, I think, 200 to 300 basis points of margin improvement at LTL in a flattish environment. I think you mentioned, if we're starting out flattish in 1Q, does that mean you're looking flattish for the year? And -- does that -- or is too big a whole? And so that 200, 300 basis points for the full year is too big? Or is that still achievable Alain, in your outlook? And how about EPS, are you then looking for it to be at least up on a year-over-year basis? .
Alain Bedard: Yes. So in terms of the volume, like I said, Ken, I think for the first time '26 in our U.S. LTL we should see a little bit of organic growth, okay, on the shipment count, right? On the weight, we believe that it's going to be about flat or up a bit. On the revenue per shipment, like David was saying, okay, right now, what we're seeing is a little bit of pressure on the revenue per shipment when we look at Q1 so far. But the team is working to correct that, okay? It's not like we accept that. No, no, no, no, no, no. We cannot live with $5 less of shipment and whatever it is. I mean don't forget, our GRI, which is small, okay? It's a small number of shipments, right? But we didn't do any, but we're doing one in mid-March, okay? Most of our peers have done, there's earlier than us. And us, we waited, okay? We waited because we want to continue to improve our service. So there's no this issue with customer when you talk to them about asking for more money. So this is why we're doing that mid-March. Okay. Fine. So if we go back to the year in terms of globally TFI, my mind is, for sure, our plan is we will deliver better OE or EPS in '26 versus '25 without a doubt. That's our plan. Because our -- like I said our logistics will definitely improve that. We have visibility. We know okay, where the OEMs are going, because we talk to them, okay? We know that it's going to be weak for the first 6 months year-over-year in '26 versus '25. But the latter part of the year, we're going to do way better in Q3 and in Q4 versus '25. Okay. So we are suffering a little bit in that business in Q1 and in Q2 year-over-year. In our Truckload, we've talked a lot about that. I mean I'm convinced that we're not going to deliver a 93 OR, okay, in Q1. We are improving our year-over-year basis in Q1 and during the course of the year. And on the LTL side, I mean, we're taking some actions there, okay, improving our service, organic growth small. I think that we'll do a better job in '26 as we've done. Now we've said it clearly, and this is why our guidance is only $0.50 to $0.60 is that we had a difficult start of the year, okay, not just in U.S. LTL, in truckload as well and logistics because some of our customers are not that busy. So this is why this is what we believe is achievable, okay? And hopefully, we do better than that.
David Saperstein: Yes. And the other thing I would point out on the full year is that in Truckload, we've done a lot of work in 2025 to reduce the capital intensity of Truckload, because we had way too much equipment. And so depreciation expense will be lower in the Truckload in '26 than it was in '25. And you can actually already see that if you look at the DNA of Truckload just in Q4 is $3 million lower than it was the year prior and lower as a percentage of revenue as well, right? So there's real efficiency as it relates to the capital there. And that's going to continue into '26 and the impact would probably be higher in '26 than $3 million a quarter.
Alain Bedard: Yes. Because if I may add, guys, our revenue, if I remember correctly, our revenue per truck in Q4 is better even with rates per mile that are not that better. So velocity is more.
Operator: And your last question comes from the line of Cameron Doerksen from National Bank.
Cameron Doerksen: I just wanted to, I guess, follow up on M&A. You mentioned a few times the acquisition you closed in Q4, I guess, the Hearn industrial. I mean, obviously not huge, but you cited it a couple of times here as a really great fit. Can you just talk a little bit about that business? Because it looks like in your disclosures that not a huge from revenue point of view, but a pretty good margin profile for that business.
Alain Bedard: Well, you see -- I mean those guys are doing a great job. I mean they are entrepreneur. And I think that what these guys are doing today is great. And I think that the potential for being part of the TFI family is going to help us -- help them and us, okay, do even better in the future. So this is something new for them. I'll give you an example. They don't touch freight. I mean, they do a lot of work for the -- in the automotive business, but they don't touch freight, but they have a certain degree in the freight. So that's something new for them, right? So for sure, they are in touch with our GHG division, okay? Because these guys have a lot of capacity that could be used to deliver freight for those guys. So there's going to be some great synergies, I think, between members of the family, with the Truckload sectors and all that. And for sure, these guys are lean and mean operators, very successful guys. And yes, I think it's going to be a great acquisition in our logistics sector, a little bit like the [ GHG ] and the other ones that we've done in the logistics sector.
Cameron Doerksen: Okay. No, that's helpful. Maybe just a bigger picture capital allocation question. I mean you mentioned that you continue to be active with the tuck-in acquisitions. Just wondering if you've got kind of a target for leverage at year-end? I mean, you still pretty comfortable here, great free cash flow still expected in 2026. But just any guess targets there as far as leverage and is the capital allocation priorities?
Alain Bedard: Yes. So capital is always the same thing. If we don't do anything of size we're going to do probably, I would say, '26 in 2026, $200 million to $300 million of M&A in terms of tuck-in, probably $200 million minimum, maybe up to $300 million, and then we get the dividend. And the rest, okay, we'll just use the cash to pay down debt or depending on the stock valuation do some buyback. I mean we have the possibility of buying back all the way up to 7 million shares that we are approved to do. Now again, $2.5 million leverage, it's okay, but we would prefer to bring that down to $2 million over time. So let's say that we do about the same free cash as we did last year. We got the dividend, we've got the M&A -- so then for sure, we'll be reducing our leverage if we don't do any stock buyback. So leverage I don't remember the plan, David. So where do we end up, we're closer to $2 million than $2.5 million.
David Saperstein: Yes, no doubt. And the other thing we'll point out and we actually added this into the MD&A were just under the table where we show the leverage ratio. That leverage ratio is calculated according to the way that our banking covenants are calculated and it includes two things that some investors may not consider leverage. One is letters of credit. And the second is the book value of earn-outs, right, which are subject, of course, to the future performance target companies. So those numbers are a little bigger than they have been in the past. And so that's why we set them out in the table. And so you can see that and you can work out by backing those out, what, let's say, the real economic leverage of the company is, which is a little lower than as presented in the banking syndicate.
Alain Bedard: Yes. With these numbers, David, I think we're at $2.2 million, right? .
Operator: There are no further questions at this time. I will now hand the call back to Alain Bedard for any closing remarks. .
Alain Bedard: Thank you. So all right then. Thank you very much, operator, and thank you, everyone, for being on today's call. We appreciate your interest in TFI International. And we're both confident in our position and enthusiastic about what 2026 will bring. As always, please reach out if you have any additional questions. I look forward to seeing many of you on this year's conference circuit. Enjoy the day, and we'll be in touch. Thank you. .
Operator: This concludes today's call. Thank you for participating. You may all disconnect.