Octavius Oky Prakarsa: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to PT Telkom Indonesia Earnings call for the audited full year results of 2024. We will start with an overview from our CSO and CFO of TelkomGroup, followed by Q&A questions. Before we start, let me remind you that today's call and the responses to questions may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of safe harbor. Actual results could differ materially from projections or estimates and may involve risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to be different from what we have discussed today. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure now to introduce Telkom's Board of Directors, who are joining us today. Bapak Budi Setyawan Wijaya as our Strategic Portfolio Director; Bapak Heri Supriadi as Finance and Risk Management Directors; Ibu Venusiana as Enterprise and Business Service Directors; Bapak Bogi Witjaksono as Wholesale and International Service Directors; Bapak Herlan Wijanarko as Network and IT Solutions Directors; Bapak Muhamad Fajrin Rasyid as Digital Business Directors. Also present are the Board of Directors of Telkomsel, Bapak Nugroho as President Directors; Bapak Daru Mulyawan as Finance and Risk Management Directors; Bapak Derrick Heng as Marketing Directors; and Bapak Adiwinahyu Basuki Sigit as Sales Directors. I now hand over the call to Telkom Indonesia Director of Strategic Portfolio, Bapak Budi Setyawan Wijaya for his overview.

Budi Wijaya: Thank you, Oky. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Telkom Indonesia earnings call for the audited full year 2024 results. We appreciate your patience and participation in this call. Ladies and gentlemen, last year has been a demanding yet fulfilling year for Indonesian telco sector due to a combination of softness in the macroeconomic condition that transpired from increased global volatility and rising competitive environment. However, TelkomGroup managed to navigate these challenges effectively closing the year with steady revenue and stable mobile customer base. Globally, 2024 was the largest election year in the history, as there were more than 70 countries, home to more than half of the world's population had their election. The most high-profile election in 2024 was undoubtedly the U.S. election in November, which somewhat affected the U.S. economy and interest rate decision. Investor view on potentially higher for longer Fed fund rate made central banks, including Bank Indonesia, be more careful in adjusting their monetary policy. Indonesia was also one of the countries that help presidential election in the February 2024. During the past 8 months until the inauguration in October, Indonesia capital market economy was not immune from heightened volatility from the above. Fortunately, Indonesia economy managed to grow by 5% annually last year, supported by private consumption. During the year, Bank Indonesia also maintained accommodative monetary policy stance by keeping the benchmark rate at 6%. Indonesia average headline inflation for full year 2024 is at 2.3%, well within Bank Indonesia guidance. Several episodes, this inflationary period weakened Indonesia purchasing power, which indicated by less than 5% annual minimum wage growth. Nevertheless, despite headwinds from the global market and the economy Indonesia data consumption continued to post healthy growth. In 2024, Telkomsel recorded 13.9% year-on-year data payload growth, which was supported by strategic pricing initiative, seasonal factor and successful trade to pre-to-postpaid migration, while navigating the ongoing shift from legacy base revenue towards digital or OTT platform. Indonesian mobile data consumption remained one of the lowest in the Asia region with only 12 gigabyte per month. Fixed broadband penetration also lagged behind neighboring countries in the region, which to us mean opportunity. In fourth quarter 2024, we saw an improvement in the supply side within the industry. This is an encouraging trend given our commitment towards healthier industry environment. However, given the relatively weak macro backdrop, we think the sector recovery will largely be dependent on economic recovery as well. Going forward, we continue to use disciplined approach to support market repair to ensure sustainable value creation. I'm excited to update on successful completion of one-billing integration, a major operational milestone enhance our fixed-mobile convergence capabilities and lays the foundation for long-term wholesale revenue growth. In December 2024, convergence ratio reached 57%, validating our strategy to provide integrated multiproduct offering through bundled services. The completion of billing integration will further enable Telkom Indonesia to accelerate FMC adoption by deeper customer engagement and bundle offering, enhancing household value proposition. As a part of Five Bold Moves strategy implementation, our corporate transformation group ensured that all business process achieved efficient results with no duplication processes. One of the strategic initiatives to lower CapEx for consumer premise equipment and network have improved quite meaningfully to doing the group procurement initiative. This has been evidenced by our ability to serve broader market segmentation. Notably in our consumer business segment, such group negotiation process has additionally made positive impact to digital content offering, which in the end resulted to a better experience for end customer and efficient content cost for the company. On the B2B business, we continue to agile and yet focus to create long-term sustainable growth of revenue on digital connectivity supported by platform expansion with data center and cloud as business enabler. Apart from organic capacity expansion, we are in the final stage of strategic partner selection to unlock value, while borrowing on their expertise to manage our data center businesses. Through the partnership, we believe to set a better positioning in the market and optimizing our core competence, which create long-term sustainability value for -- in the group. We aim to conclude this initiative in 2025. Moving on to InfraCo. The establishment of PT Telkom Infrastruktur Indonesia or TIF as Telkom Infrastruktur managed service entity will enable us to transfer efficient asset deployment, while also improve existing infrastructure assets with additional investment to increase CapEx efficiency. In December last year, TIF started the initial phase of commercialization by securing license and first sales to one of major ASP in Indonesia. Before I hand over the session to Pak Heri Supriadi, Telkom Indonesia Director of Finance and Risk Management, to give you an overview of full year 2024 audited financial performance, allow me to conclude that industry dynamic, including macroeconomic factor, competitive market dynamic and shifting consumer behavior will continue to influence sector performance in 2025. While legacy revenue headwind persist positive momentum in data usage, industry consolidation and a rational pricing environment channel opportunities for sustainable growth. Thank you.

Heri Supriadi: Thank you, Pak Budi. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. In 2024, TelkomGroup delivered a positive revenue growth of 0.5% year-on-year to IDR 150 trillion, supported by a combination of our consumer enterprise and wholesale international business. Healthy data payload was driven by a combination of strategies aimed to enhance subscriber productivity via stronger customer engagement on digital content and execution of FMC strategy to further strengthen convergence revenue stream by providing integrated digital services through bundle offering to enhance household value proposition. Full year EBITDA grew to IDR 75 trillion, a slight decline of 3.3% year-on-year. The slip in our full year EBITDA has been largely attributed to our investment in our initiative toward talent rejuvenation via early retirement program conducted in the second quarter of 2024. Stripping out the one-off costs from the program, our full year normalized EBITDA grew to IDR 76.2 trillion, declined by 1.8% year-on-year and took the normalized EBITDA margin to 15.8%. Meanwhile, operating net income grew to IDR 24.1 trillion receded by 4.1% year-on-year after taking out the impact from early retirement program, mark-to-market in investment and asset unlocking. In 2024, total expenses recorded rapid growth of 2% year-on-year to IDR 107 trillion, while operating expenses grew to -- grew a tad faster by 4.6% year-on-year to IDR 74.9 trillion. Personnel expenses for the year increased by 5.5% year-on-year due to early retirement program. An uptick in marketing expenses grew by 8.3% year-on-year to IDR 3.8 trillion, accounted for 2.6% in TelkomGroup revenue, aligned closely with the historical average 2% to 3% of the percentage. This is in line with strategic push to accelerate fixed broadband penetration and leverage seasonal promotion campaigns aimed to strengthening customer engagement and retention during the quarter. The total CapEx spend in 2024 reached IDR 24.5 trillion, largely allocated for connectivity, followed by spending for digital platform and services. CapEx realization to revenue was at 16.3%. Lower realized CapEx was due to underspend allocation from data center and back-end loaded spending on connectivity-related CapEx in anticipation of one-billing system integration completion. Nevertheless, this is in line with TelkomGroup's strategic initiative on CapEx [Audio Gap] gearing ratio maintained at a healthy level with net debt to EBITDA stood at 0.6x during the period. Our consumer business, Telkomsel recorded revenue growth of 10.7% year-on-year for 2024 to IDR 113.3 trillion, driven by a combination of accelerated fixed mobile conversion adoption and improved revenue quality from stronger customer engagement and seasonal uplift in usage while maintaining a stable mobile customer base close to 160 million and healthy data payload growth of 13.9% year-on-year by the end of 2024. While the competitive environment remains benign, our disciplined approach to market repair ensure sustainable value creation with longer-term growth prioritized offer short-term market share gains. Industry dynamics, including macroeconomic factors, competitive market dynamic and shifting consumer behavior will continue to influence the sector performance in 2025. While legacy revenue headwinds persist, positive momentum in data usage, industry consolidation and rational pricing environment signal opportunities for sustainable growth. Consumer fixed broadband subscriber grew by 2.5% on a quarterly basis to 9.6 million, including that our strategy to broaden our customer base in gaining traction. Digital business rise its share of mobile revenue to 90.3% from 88% previously or amounting IDR 78.3 trillion. This performance -- this reinforced digital business as Telkomsel primary mobile revenue driver supported by strategic cross-selling fixed mobile convergence initiative and data payload growth. The convergence ratio reached 57% as per December 2024, and we are committed to further bolstering this with playing convergence offerings. This initiative supports consumer retention and strengthen defensive value aligned with our ongoing execution of one-billing system. Wholesale and enterprise business continue to grow, providing business diversification to TelkomGroup. As a segment, wholesale and international business posted annual growth of 6.4% year-on-year to IDR 18 trillion, driven by digital infrastructure business as well as growing international wholesale voice business. Mitratel recorded revenue growth of 7.2% year-on-year in 2024 to IDR 9.3 trillion. Improvement in tenancy ratio to 1.52x by the last of the year was driven by growth in colocation and the number of tenants. As part of business expansion strategy to strengthen product portfolio and becoming a digital infrastructure company, Mitratel completed acquisition of more than 8,000 kilometers of fiber optic in December, taking total length of fiber optic under management to 51,039 kilometers. Last year, Enterprise segment recorded revenue of IDR 20.6 trillion, growing by 5.6% year-on-year, driven by Indibiz, Satellite Services, e-Payment business. We continue to strengthen our capabilities, better capture opportunity within small and medium enterprise. Despite the dynamic during 2024, we are grateful that TelkomGroup managed to meet the previously committed guidance. For 2025, we see that Indonesia economic environment will still be affected by external pressures, including geopolitical tension and global trade dispute. As the result, macroeconomic challenges may impact industry growth and spending patterns. Hence, we conservatively guide TelkomGroup revenue to grow within low single digit, maintain EBITDA margin range guideline at 50% to 52% and adjusted our CapEx to sales range guidance to 17% to 19% of ratio. We continue to maintain our cost leadership initiative by targeting CapEx to revenue to around 17% to 19% by 2028 in the medium to long run. TelkomGroup remains committed to deliver reliable connectivity, optimizing network investment and driving operational efficiency to sustain long-term value creation. That would be the end of my remarks. Thank you for your attention. I now hand over to [ Remi ] to moderate the Q&A session.

Operator: [Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Piyush Choudhary.

Piyush Choudhary: This is Piyush from HSBC. Two questions. Firstly, if you can talk about the outlook for mobile ARPU and given the billing integration has been completed, if you can share your progress on the launch of new FMC plans and organization readiness to push those plans? Secondly, on CapEx. CapEx has come down massively and you're guiding for 17% to 19%. So maybe just understand what has changed structurally for CapEx intensity to be lower? Because prior to this, you were hovering around 22% -- 21% to 22% of CapEx. So would this be a sustainable number at 17% to 19%? And in that context, how should we think about dividend payout ratio?

Operator: Perhaps we can go straight to the answer.

Derrick Heng: Thank you, Piyush. This is Derrick. Thank you for your question. For us, we will continue to double down on our FMC strategy. As you could see, starting from -- when we're beginning -- when we started our journey at Q4 2023, it was at 44%. And now at Q4 2025, we are at a high of 57%. So that, to us, brings a lot of value in terms of how we are able to upsell and cross-sell to our high-value group of customers as well to be relevant in terms of not just connectivity, but the digital offerings across the different screens of both mobile as well as the TV. So our outlook based on what has been developed so far, the billing integration has completed and it has enabled more flexible converged offerings, and we are able to streamline bundling, reducing friction across the segments. And we want to really leverage on our existing subs. If you look at how we have scaled up FMC to broaden the reach, we are targeting the -- up to 1 million net adds in 2025. So the strategy will continue to focus on bundling fixed broadband with digital services to enhance value relevance vis-a-vis stand-alone purchases. And FMC has indeed drove the average revenue per household. And that for us, shifting focus from individual connections to multiservice household adoption. So I hope that has answered your question. We will continue to optimize our FMC value proposition, pricing and customer adoption to drive long-term growth and competitiveness.

Adiwinahyu Sigit: Yes. To add to your questions on the FMC approach, I think after the billing integration, our -- besides the readiness of the product launch that we are continuously prepared on the fixed mobile convergence services. We also ready for the organization to really integrate all the fixed and mobile convergence to go to the market. And the Q2 onwards, we believe there is many things we can do on how we can offering expansions of the fixed mobile convergence services that we have been piloting before. And with the integration of the billing that we have done end of last year, it helped us to do it more structurally and also faster in launching in the market.

Heri Supriadi: This is Heri speaking here. On your question, what has been -- what has changed to result the CapEx to be lower. First of all, of course, when we decide CapEx, that's supposed to provide all the necessary network for us to support the demand, the company growth and also innovation that we need for the business. The lower investment we did last year actually also can fulfill all that needs. How we achieve that one? We have, I think, to strengthen our strategy to use better technology choice and then use more efficient topology of our network. And to procure more efficient of our network needs by basically aggregation of all the group needs by the category. So we have a better visibility on what we need and have also kind of more medium-term demand projection so we can provide better economic of scale to the future demand to our vendor. By having this, we have also kind of a cheaper price per unit for our network or investment. And then what is the ratio looks like in the medium term? We already provide the figure to you. It's around 17% to 18% as our previously mentioned to many of you as well on this one. So we still see that the number is quite, I think, suitable right now. And then what is the impact on the dividend payout ratio? Last year, we did pay a dividend payout ratio around 80%. We do expect to provide, I think, a higher dividend per share this year to have, I think, better return to the shareholders. This, we believe, not going to impact too much in our, let's say, leverage ratio as well as I think our capability of continue to do the investment. So that I think ends up that we can provide the figure on the CapEx purpose.

Adiwinahyu Sigit: Piyush, just to add the point from what Pak Heri was discussing. In regards to CapEx for 2024, indeed, there was a bit of delay as well in some of the projects, notably in the data centers. That we expect this to be carried over in 2025. However, for this year, we remain comfortable at the range of 17% to 19%, of which this has been the guidance for our medium-term CapEx by 2028. That should be already reflected within this year. Hopefully, that answers your questions.

Piyush Choudhary: No, this is great. Just because structurally, now you're looking at a lower CapEx intensity, implying a higher free cash flow. Is there any thoughts of increasing the dividend payout ratio like permanently? Because earlier range has been 60% to 90%.

Heri Supriadi: I think as I mentioned previously, we're going to propose a higher dividend this year compared to last year. And then over the medium term, of course, we need to see the balance between the investment and also I think payout ratio.

Operator: We will continue with the next question from Kelsey Santoso.

Kelsey Rochili Santoso: Kelsey here from Goldman Sachs. A couple of questions from my side. So firstly, adding on to the previous question on mobile ARPUs. So trying to figure the sustainability of the ARPU recovery here. And could you update us on what you're seeing on the ground in terms of consumer spending trends? And how are you thinking about pricing strategy in this kind of environment? So that's my first question. And the second one is on sales and marketing spending. In Q4, saw a spike in both quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year basis. So I understand that Q-on-Q is more of seasonality, but even year-on-year, we saw a significant spike as well. So I wanted to check on the trajectory from here? That's my question.

Derrick Heng: Kelsey, this is Derrick. Thank you for your question. The context of -- you asked about ARPU from a recovery sustainability perspective. So Telkomsel has consistently managed ARPU and data yield despite a very competitive landscape. And we are always very mindful of the macroeconomic conditions, as it seeks to improve and you could see our data consumption growing steadily. We are focused on really to monetize this trend through product simplification and to make the -- our experience for our customers a lot more intuitive, a lot more simpler. So from an outlook perspective, in the near term, I think macro conditions and seasonal headwinds will continue to influence the top line trends, although we maintain a focus on sustainability revenue growth, the discipline in margin and CapEx optimization with continued investment in quality and customer service. Your next question on...

Daru Mulyawan: Okay. Thank you, Kelsey, for your question. In relation with the sales and marketing expenses. If we compare the full year 2024 as compared to '23, the growth is 23.2% -- sorry -- okay. If we compare the growth of sales and marketing expenses between '24 and '23, the growth is 23.2% in which it was mostly due to the integration of IndiHome since second half 2023. And then if we -- however, for the full year '24, we can manage the sales and marketing expenses to 3.2% of our sales -- our revenue, and it's in line with our guidance. If we compare the spike between Q-on-Q sales and marketing was mostly due to the lower spending in the previous quarter. And for your question that the Q4, margin as my analysis in line with accelerated fixed broadband penetration efforts, including higher sales support and customer loyalty program, particularly during Q4 channel promotions. So that's all from me related to the sales and marketing expenses.

Adiwinahyu Sigit: Kelsey, to add to your point on market condition and also the spending on the ground. I think what we've seen so far, the spending remain low, as it's in line with the economic condition. And also towards the [indiscernible], what we call it is we also see that the current years are -- compared to last years are a bit lower activity in terms of the traveling. So it also shows that the economic condition are impacted. However, our strategy is continuously to maintain our productivity on -- across the market, including seeing the competitiveness and what we are focused on is how to simplify our product portfolio in order to help the experience better and also optimize and improving our ARPU.

Operator: We will move to the next question from Henry Tedja.

Henry Tedja: Perhaps 2 questions from my end, especially regarding the Telkomsel. I mean if you look at on the data payload, in third quarter and fourth quarter, it increased quite a lot, but I think when we see the digital revenue itself in terms of the year-on-year, I think it declined. So I'm just wondering that does that mean Telkomsel gives more bonus quota to consumers since the data revenue is not basically aligned with the data payload in here? And then the second question, I think all the Telkomsel's management mentioned about the product simplification. So just curious how the progress so far? I mean, like can you give us some example on how much product that has been taken out from the market? And what will be your target in terms of number of products in the market going forward?

Derrick Heng: Henry, this is Derrick answering your question. Just to put some context, in fact, our digital revenue increased year-on-year. Perhaps what you are trying to clarify is the data yield, the revenue per GB. And that admittedly has -- we have faced some downward pressure. But I just want to put some context to -- there are 2 key factors. There's ongoing structural declines in the effective pricing per GB. And that's because due to the competitive environment, so larger data bundles are now offering better value to our customers. Then we see the double-digit growth in payload, which will dilute the yield metrics even as overall revenues grow. But that suggests the context of the natural byproduct of deeper digital engagement to our customers. Customers are enjoying more of our digital offerings. And hence, our focus remains on delivering relevance to the digital lifestyle of our customers. And that presents an opportunity moving forward to monetize usage through smarter segmentation and bundling, especially in high ARPU and FMC linked segments. So looking ahead, we expect data yield to remain under pressure, but we aim to offset this with ARPU stabilization, continued personalized CVM and cross-product monetization, including content and home connectivity bundles.

Adiwinahyu Sigit: To answer your second question -- this is Sigit. I think the product simplification progress as we currently are -- undergo. It is happening not only from starter pack point of view, but also the renewal product. And it has been taken gradually. From the starter pack point of view, I think we still have also remaining stock on the market as well as the new products that we are going in the simplification process. And on top of that, of course, in the renewal packages, we have various portfolio for lower segment as well as for the higher-value segments, and those are being exercised in order to make sure that in every segment, we addressed the product simplifications in the right way. So then it is towards the productivity and able to have the optimization on the ARPU. At the same time, I think it ensure the easiness of the customers to find the right product for the user to use, especially to avoid the cannibalization within the -- across the product. I hope it answered the question. Thank you, Henry.

Unknown Executive: Just to add to what discussed by Pak Derrick, and Pak Sigit. As we have seen in the market, macro remains the moving factors to our site, as we're entering in 2025, although we see meaningful improvements in the supply side of the market, and hence, our initiative towards the product simplifications and where we're taking momentum on. However, we expect this to only start materialize towards the end of second quarter, as we see now the markets are absorbing the old inventories. The good news is the other operators has followed the initiative that we have taken, that we take this as a positive momentum in the industry repairs. Thank you.

Operator: Moving on to our next question comes from Niko Margaronis.

Niko Margaronis: My question is on the OpEx. And specifically, O&M. Can you tell us why -- what has driven the higher O&M in the fourth quarter? I think it was a big drag in -- for your EBITDA margin. That's question number one. And yes, question number 2. Yes, I think it's related to starter packs. Do you see possibility to take this place, the simplification, this better pricing perhaps taking place in Q1 by -- sorry, by Q2? Yes. Yes, perhaps maybe a better picture on the starter packs and the pricing.

Heri Supriadi: Niko. On the OpEx, especially operation and maintenance, what was driving higher O&M in the fourth quarter of 2024. Basically, this is related to the content -- digital content along with the connectivity, both in our Consumer business as well as in our Enterprise business. This is basically content that accompany the connectivity itself. So that I think the reason, including in this one, you can see also, for example, in the payment. We also have content related to this one. I think that's main reason in the Q4. The operation and maintenance costs increase is not really coming from the network, but coming from the content itself.

Adiwinahyu Sigit: Pak Niko, to answer your questions #2, which is on the starter pack. We believe that this rationalization and simplification of portfolio, of course, we aim towards the better pricing yield on the starter pack and also driving the renewal as we go along. Of course, this will really depend on a few factors. Number one, of course, economic condition has always remained as factors for us to continuously adapt on the starter pack. And number two, of course, the competitions along towards the Q2 onwards. But the time line that we've seen on how we see the better starter pack pricing is basically after the -- continuously, we rewind our existing Telkomsel Lite, by.U product. We believe that Q2 onwards will be a good time frame for us to see a better improvement in terms of the stock on the starter pack as well as the renewal when we have to be able to improve the quality of the experience of the customers, both journey from the renewal as well as from the acquisition perspective. Thank you, Pak Niko. I hope it answered the question.

Operator: Next question will come from Ranjan Sharma.

Ranjan Sharma: Two questions from my side. Firstly is a follow-up. On your products like Telkomsel Lite and by.U, how do you see -- how do you benchmark the success of those plans versus your expectations when they had launched them? And how could those products evolve in the coming period? The second is on the OpEx side, there has been increase in OpEx over the last couple of years. Are there meaningful plans to optimize the costs going forward?

Adiwinahyu Sigit: Sigit answering your first question. We believe, I think Telkomsel Lite and by.U serve our purpose to address different segments. I think from the previous -- when we launched this Telkomsel Lite and by.U, by.U remains to target digital and new segments. And also, Telkomsel Lite, I think we addressed to stay competitive in the mass market segments and what are actually been successful in the segment that we are addressing. Moving forward, of course, with the simplification of the product portfolio that we have, we believe we will continuously replan and reposition ourselves in terms of product portfolio, especially on a starter pack point of view as well as the renewal. So basically, what we are saying is that moving forward, it will be more simpler and repositioning ourselves in terms of the product. Derrick, do you want to add something?

Derrick Heng: Yes. Ranjan, this is Derrick. And I'd like to add to Pak Sigit's perspective. So first on Telkomsel Lite, it was acquisition tool that helped us to strengthen our market presence, especially in key areas of Java. And 1 year since of launch, it has maintained a stable customer base with minimal churn. And in fact, we are doubling down on renewals to make it a sustainable segment for prepaid. Then for looking ahead, it will remain a targeted tool for market optimization and customer retention rather than a spray gun approach initiative, yes. Then the next up on by.U, it remains a very segmented approach to target at our very young customers, which are more digitally savvy and with a very distinct and differentiated requests for experience, especially in the app and lifestyle rewards. So that is our -- again, initiative to drive relevance and contextual offerings to this customer segment, which is our customer of tomorrow. Thank you.

Heri Supriadi: Do we have any plan to optimize this going forward? Of course, this is becoming our aim to have more efficient OpEx. It's been in line with the growth of revenue, for example. What we're going to do first in the network itself, as I previously mentioned, we're going to have more efficient network technologies and then we use the technology that are suitable to our business that make more efficient. And then in the procurement side, we're going to do, I think, group procurement process and more to economic of scale to get all our CapEx efficiency as long as the operational and maintenance efficiency and also some synergy that we need to continue to address. In addition to this one also, we are going to increase asset utilization. So we then can manage our CapEx to revenue ratio and also the unit of our infrastructure. We do expect this going to also have kind of efficiency contribution to operation and maintenance. Along with that, in terms of the content that are also part of our services that go along with connectivity, both in consumer and B2B. We also try to have a better, I think, deal with a partner who provide that one. So with that, we do expect this OpEx going to be at least in line with the revenue growth. I think that from our side.

Operator: Moving on. Our next question will come from Pak Jimmy.

Unknown Analyst: Two questions from my side, please. I just want to check if there's any changes in the operating metric guidance for this year that was communicated to us a while back, remembering that we are like 4 months into this year, especially in the ARPU and subscribers addition in both mobile in both mobile and IndiHome. The second question would be regarding the 1.4 gigahertz spectrum auction. Is there any update from our side regarding if you're participating or not? And also I've seen the news that there is a possibility for a lower annual spectrum fee for this year? I mean how much savings are we expecting from this?

Derrick Heng: Jimmy, this is Derrick. Just to share our ARPU outlook, our ARPU outlook, the growth target is aligned to our inflationary levels, but adjusted for continued structural decline of our legacy revenue, which constitutes about a 20% to 30% year-on-year decline. So expect drag from legacy to taper, as the contribution falls below 5% to 6% of total revenue in the next 1 to 1.5 years. So outlook remains conservative, reflecting persistent macro pressures and affordability challenges. Any upside will depend on really industry-wide pricing discipline, the will to drive market repair and healthy business conduct, including adjustments, not just on main brands, but across the entire product portfolio. Your context of fixed broadband for our 2025. Our guidance is still to continue to target to drive net adds, building on our 9.6 million customer base. And there are 2 approach when we look at the customer segments, the IndiHome remains our premium offering, while EZnet supports penetration in the value segment, especially in ex-Java, where infrastructure lead supports scalable growth. So the blended ARPU may moderate, as we continue to monetize through bundling, upselling and ARPU-driven FMC expansion, helping us to balance affordability while driving household value creation. Thank you.

Adiwinahyu Sigit: To answer your second question, I think from -- regarding the auction of 1.4 gigahertz. I think what we are -- our position is always remain to see an option of opportunity of the technology, including the 1.4 gigahertz as our option for fixed broadband as well as the usage for us to increase the capacity. However, I think we're always trying to be cautious on any potential board costs as well as the cost structures in delivering the services in order to make sure that we stay competitive and relevant in the market. Thank you.

Operator: Moving on. We'll move on to Arthur Pineda.

Arthur Pineda: Two questions, please. What changes can be seen with the inclusion of Telkom under Danantara? Any changes in the terms of key priorities or KPIs being cascaded on the board, which could be different from that of the SOE ministry? Second question I had is with regard to how do you measure success on the fixed mobile conversion exercise? I'm wondering how this convergence model actually changed the business. The targets have been broadly unchanged at around 1 million versus the pre-convergence levels. You've not really seen any margin expansion as well. Can you share your thoughts on how you see this is changing?

Budi Wijaya: Arthur, here Budi speaking. For Danantara, actually -- yes, on the Danantara and state on enterprise offices, they are on the progressing to set up the team and also operating model for boots organization. But in early discussion with them, hopefully, the structure, especially the ownership will be more simple and more professional, since the share will be owning by the Danantara and A share will be owning by the Ministry of the Enterprise. So in the future, we hope that the agility on the business entity under Danantara will be -- have a better position comparing the previous one. Thank you.

Adiwinahyu Sigit: To your second question, I think the -- how we measure success of fixed mobile convergence? Of course, this is not only from the fixed broadband business alone, but also the fixed mobile convergence provide the stickiness as well as the retention for us, both for mobile and fixed. And at the same time, I think we believe that this also will help us to improve the ARPU per household when we are able to monetize and also to acquire the fixed mobile convergence services, among others, players that we have. And so far, I think the fixed mobile convergence, our positioning is for our value creation on top of the individual services, both fixed broadband and mobile services stand-alone. And it helped us to give more value to the customers, not only from the connectivity perspective, also from the digital services bundling. And of course, the additional of net adds fixed broadband remain 1 million as targeted. However, I think we believe it is -- will be aligned on how fast we can deploy our greenfield in order to really capture the penetration as we aware that the penetration of fixed broadband are still pretty low in Indonesia, and we believe we have the capability to continuously grab and expand the penetration. And as we go along since the billing integration have been done, we're also able to expand the possibility to have the bundling services better and cross-selling improvement going forward. I hope I answered the question.

Operator: Moving on, we have next question from Kevin Jonathan.

Kevin Jonathan Panjaitan: I'm Kevin from Bahana Securities. Two questions from my side. The first is a follow-up on 1 gigahertz spectrum auction. Just want to know the Telkom's opinion about this, regarding the government's plan to provide affordable home internet by using this spectrum 100 megabyte per second for 100,000. Do you think it's economically feasible and sustainable with this price? And the second is about the current repurchasing power. Do you see any possibility to increase the price in this year? Yes, because right now, we have kind of a weak purchasing power.

Adiwinahyu Sigit: Yes. For the 1.4 spectrum auction and also the potential usage for this in terms of fixed broadband, especially. I think what we've seen, we remain always open the opportunity. However, we always see, again, I think the cost structures, not only the spectrum but also the devices and all others -- among others, as we go along. And I think for us, we have many opportunity to deploy the fixed broadband and fixed mobile convergence services, including the fixed-wireless access, not only from this spectrum. So Telkomsel have many options compared to other competitors, as we have deployed many solutions for the fixed broadband. And in terms of the affordability, of course, we're always trying to compare ourselves and manage our pricing as well as to balance it with the quality of service. I think our experience for the fixed broadband is not only about how we deploy it, but also how we maintain it. So that is -- will be a factor of us to delivering the better services and the quality of service and the fixed broadband, both for fixed wireless access technology as well as for the fixed technology.

Derrick Heng: Yes. Perhaps I'd like to add more on the ARPU growth potential of mobile, given the weak economy. I mean there are a few current market dynamics that we are mindful about. Mobile penetration is already at 130%. But we also see healthy payload growth indicating the relevance of digital lifestyle and the strong data consumption. When you look at Indonesia's data pricing, it is, in fact, the second lowest globally behind India. So when we look at even the current usage at best of 15 GB per month, if you look at Thailand, Thailand is at 30 GB per month. So I think that presents opportunity if you are able to do our product simplification well, we do our tailored personalized packages. And we want to drive a very CVM-led engagement with different offerings, targeting at different customer lifestyle and needs. And we also look at from a high-value customer experience perspective, how could we drive loyalty and rewards to reward their -- this crème de la crème customers. So there's a lot of partnerships that we have done with content providers to drive and stimulate data usage. Then there's this -- we also look at how we can do a pre-to-post base to drive ARPU improvement and overall a healthy state in terms of segment penetration. Then we look at how we enrich our multiproduct offering through FMC play across our different products and really to drive differentiation through 5G, cities, digital products and ecosystem expansion to boost engagement and ARPU. Thank you.

Octavius Oky Prakarsa: Kevin, this is Oky from IR. Just to add a point from Pak Derrick. In regards to purchasing power, obviously, we are not immune coming from the impact of the pursuing powers. As we see in the short run, we saw deflationary in the macro economics already that should also be seeing a similar trend on what we see in the market, notably as well in our business. However, thanks to the meaningful improvements in our competitive landscape, hence, our efforts basically the initiative that has been discussed by Pak Derrick. So hopefully, this could be a great momentum, especially when we expect to see and -- as well as the commitment towards a healthy industry conduct, and especially having that high penetration in the mobile markets that we've already seen can be further optimized through this initiative and also being followed by commitment from other operators.

Operator: If we may allow for one last question from Sukriti Bansal. Okay. If there is no further questions, then this is the end of Q&A session. I now hand over the session back to Pak Oky.

Octavius Oky Prakarsa: Thank you. As no further inquiries, I would like to wrap up this call. Thank you, TelkomGroup and Telkomsel Board of Directors participations. My regards to investors and analysts who have participated as well. A recording of today's call will be available for the next 7 days, and the link will be sent to your e-mails. This concludes Telkom Indonesia Earnings Call for 2024 full year results. Thank you, and see you in the next quarter's earnings call next week. Thank you very much.